Down-Down-Up

JDRooke

Hey all.. do most folks do the down-down-up universally for odd numbers of notes on strings recommended in Micheal's Gypsy Picking example #6? Or do many just do it on the high E? It seems challenging to work out on the fly for less lick-based, more improvisation kinds of playing.

I have been incorporating it mostly on the high E on licks and arps I'm working out. But, for playing without thinking, it seems super-challenging to etch into my unconscious in the way that I have with the "all downstrokes all the time when switching strings" approach.

Any comments, discussion, or suggestions relating to incorporating and practicing this technique would be appreciated.

Lastly, is this what Stochelo does or does he just use downstrokes for switching strings at all times?

Thanks.

Jonathan

jonpowl

Here is a link to discussions directly related to Gypsy Picking: http://www.djangobooks.com/forum/categories/gypsy-picking
Not sure if you will find an answer to your question, but lots of good insights.

JDRooke

Heya Jon, good point. I could have put the question in the gypsy-picking forum as it specifically references an example from Micheal's book. Since I wasn't looking for a clarification per se relating to the book and am asking a specific question relating to the down-down-up technique, I put the question in the technique section. Judgment call, I guess.

I did quite a few searches and didn't find a discussion topic in that thread or others relating to my question, which is why I started a new discussion thread. I'm very curious to see what people's thoughts are.

Buco

I don't think I ever used this pattern. I haven't read Michael's book though. I can see how it will set you up for a downstroke on a new string but it's probably challenging to do during fast tempos. Although it's not less challenging to alternate and then do a downstroke when changing strings, you still need two down strokes. That's what I'm attempting to do and I think what Stochelo does most of the time.

JDRooke

Cool, thanks for the comment. Micheal's book just touches on this technique in regards to one example and doesn't make too much of it. I've heard about it word of mouth and in a guitar lesson I've taken. In Wrembel's book, his triplet exercises don't do this down-down-up prior to switching strings. I'd think he would do it in his exercises if he did this universally. Maybe, it's just something people throw in here and there to add some efficiency to particular worked out licks. Perhaps, others who do use this more often will chime in at some point.

Buco

JDRooke wrote: »

Maybe, it's just something people throw in here and there to add some efficiency to particular worked out licks.

I think you pretty much nailed it right there.
You could look at DC Music School YouTube channel, Denis has a lot of videos there which could give you what you're looking for.
This is one of the first that came up after I did a search on YouTube. I think his lessons are by far the best value on the Internet when you look at the quality of production vs price know knowing his vast knowledge on the subject.

http://www.dc-musicschool.com/catalogue/video-lessons/gypsy-jazz-guitar-technique/

JDRooke

Yeah, a great resource.. Denis and his vids. I've got his first Rhythm series. I'll probably grab a bunch more, including the one you reference, before long. I think I've got plenty to work with concerning the right hand from Gypsy Picking, Wrembel's book, and some lessons I've taken. I'm shredding right hand exercises like crazy right now. This down-down-up is the one point that I am curious about in that it is referred to by some, but not gone into very deeply.

From Micheal's sixth exercise intro, "When an odd number of notes must be played on a single string and then followed by a downward string change, it is more efficient to play two downstrokes in a row so that the last pick stroke before the string change is an upstroke."

richter4208

it might be more efficient but I've rarely seen it used in practice.
If you play down up down then you set a down stroke up for your string change, from my studies that is more used universally

wim

richter4208 wrote: »

it might be more efficient but I've rarely seen it used in practice.
If you play down up down then you set a down stroke up for your string change, from my studies that is more used universally

Yes but if the next string change is to a lower [pitched] string, sometimes down-down-up is better. For example in the whole-tone part of rhythm futur, I've heard stochelo plays down-down-up on the E string.

JDRooke

That's interesting. So far, I've only seen down-down-up used on the E string. That's the only version I've done as it seems easier to work in the idea of having the last note on the E string be an upstroke.

Charles Meadows

It seems like DUD is the default. But like Wim said it makes more sense to do DDU if changing to a lower pitched string. I have definitely seen Stochelo and Angelo do this. I have noticed that while DUD seems to feel right for 3/4 time there are some times in 4/4 when DDU feels more natural.