pick slipping sideways

Bones

Interesting. Can you post pictures like this? I've tried to think about this a bit as I'm not sure what affects slipping. These days I've evolved/switched to the edge of the pick rather than the tip because I like the tone better but that may also affect slipping??? Also I think it may be important to keep your index finger curled back a bit (i.e. don't hold the pick on the tip of your index finger) but again that is for power/tone/not catching the fingernail on the upstroke for rhythm but may affect the grip/slipping??? Lastly, don't have too much pick sticking out? Question marks=I'm not a lead player so take with huge grain of salt but works for me on rhythm. Note on the first picture the top edge of the pick is actually beyond the first knuckle on the index finger which provides better support for the pick and maybe prevents slipping. There are so many variables here and these are only a few and everyone's hands are different so I imagine it comes down to what works for a certain individual.

bohemewarbler

Hi Bones,

I hold the pick very close to the way you're holding it--pretty much the standard way for GJ, between the thumb and forefinger as shown in your photos. My forefinger goes out beyond the pick some, but that's the only real difference I see. I think everybody has their own sweet spot. Anyway, I've attached a photo of the reshapened Wegen Big City Pick. Hope this helps.

Jazzaferri

the first year I was working on rhythm I filed off a tiny bit of violin rosin and put it on my thumb. stopped the pick from moving.

Once my technique was developed enough, more and more didn't use it til I stopped after that year.

Watching Stochelo Rosenberg it looks like he keeps his Wegen big city pointy side down all the time.

I use my blue chip 2mm with the pointy side down for rhythm and for lead. Just took a bit of time to get the touch right on rhythm but now I prefer the slightly crisper attack than using the side or rounded corner.

I don't think it matters how you get your sound, so long as you are getting it right.

NylonDave

OK I'm just going to say it. You need to stop being clumsy. That is all really,

How to stop being clumsy ? Well firstly don't copy clumsy people, that's real important. Second stop gripping too hard, it makes you clumsy.

The pressure with which you hold the pick should change constantly and you should adjust all the time. If you are looking for a way to play without paying attention, whether it be using a magic pick, gluing the pick to your finger (Les Paul style), gripping so hard you think you won't need to adjust, blaming the pick, holding a rabbits foot, all of these things will make you more clumsy.

Another thing, playing too hard isn't really a problem.

Trying to play at a constant volume is a problem. It is a way of being musically clumsily as only someone not properly listening is going to play rhythm at a fixed volume. Not listening makes you clumsy.

Trying to play correctly is a sure fire way to be clumsy. Try and play well instead. That means using your ears and paying attention to your body. Think of it like this, TV newsreaders try and read correctly, good actors read well. Fancy being onstage with a bunch of TV newsreaders ???

Grip the pick as lightly as you can at all times, that will mean gripping it differently from moment to moment and sometimes yes you will be gripping it very tightly, however no matter how tightly you grip you should only ever grip as lightly as possible.


Remember the rest stroke (or compression stroke for strumming) is a STROKE. Like a stoking a cat or clapping a horse you should be paying attention ALL the time. Otherwise you will be being clumsy and it will be much less fun for everyone involved who has to listen or wants to feel good.

The answer to almost every single question you are likely to have about the guitar is, listen more carefully and pay more attention to your body.

Best of luck.

D.

Bones

Hey Stuart, do you mean Buco or Bones?

What do you mean by arch, like this?

thanks

bohemewarbler

Hamad, I'll add one last thing that could be worth checking out: See Gypsy Jazz top 10 Episode 1 Guitar Picks with Christiaan Van Hemert and Brad Brose.

They rank their favorite picks and both talk about having problems with picks that slip and move on them vs. picks that are more easily kept where you want them. Both also mention, for example, that they use the side of the pick rather than the pointy end, which many players do.

I also agree with Nylon Dave, that you should adjust your grip depending on what you're doing. I believe the general rule of thumb is to hold the pick as loose as you can get away with. If the pick starts flying out of your hand, you need to tighten it, if your hand, arm, are shoulders are getting fatigued while you play, you're probably holding it too tightly.

What you do with your wrist can also affect pick control. So there is another rule of thumb: keep your wrist as loose as you can get away with.

The more you play and focus on improving your technique, the looser your grip will become and the looser your wrist will become. But again, you adjust as you play, you adjust as you improve, and you adjust depending on what you're doing at the time.

Having said all that, I don't think I would have ever commented on your original post if hadn't found Gypsy Jazz happiness in my modified, circular shaped Big City Wegen, because it has added more confidence in my playing, simply by knowing my pick will stay in place, everything else being what it is.

Good luck! Happy playing!

Jazzaferri

As the angle across the strings gets larger the pick tends to move more.

I just finished a two hour rehearsal playing rhythm. A light dusting of black on the side of the thumb from nail to joint and a light dusting on the end of the pointer finger. Blue chips are very slippery and only once when I was paying attention to something other than my playing did the pick move out of position and I had t adjust on the fly.

After the first year for the second and third years I had to carefully wash the pick and my fingers to keep it from slipping around a lot. Now, unless I am eating fries or bacon or some such it doesn't seem to matter any more.

Jazzaferri

cant get pics to post.....hmmmmm

NylonDave

stuart wrote: »

@Bones yes sorry I meant you - I've updated my post.

Yes arched like that, but even more pronounced, with the pick a bit nearer the thumb joint. Look how deep the arch is on Paulus' thumb in this video (I've seen some players where the top bit of the thumb is virtually perpendicular):

I would urge extreme caution in trying to copy how someone else's right hand looks in terms of joint angles.

1). Joint mobility varies greatly from individual to individual so one man's loose grip is another's tense forcing.
2). The body can be moulded easily and is resilient when one starts young. Not so much forty to seventy.


However Paulus is a wonderful model as are Adler and Stochelo and many of the great players.

Here is why Paulus' pick does not rotate.

1) The pick is held PERPENDICULAR to the strings so there is only a very slight turning moment either clockwise or anticlockwise which will average to zero. Any slanting would introduce a turning moment which is not a problem as long as you are not fixing the pick.

2. The pick is passing through the strings at around 45 degrees, this is extremely advantageous for rest strokes.

3. He is adjusting all the time, because he is not clumsy. All we really see are the pretty superficial things about technique, it is hard to see sensitivity.

4. The tip knuckle joint of the thumb and index fingers provide two fulcrum points and allow the pick to seesaw. Almost the opposite of fixing.

5. Paulus is REALLY rest stroking, no half hearted attempt to modify an alternate picking approach or grasping desperately at straws (or giant plectrums) to excuse not landing solidly on the next string.


I agree that it doesn't hurt to have belt and braces, no reason at all not to have a pick that doesn't become slick.

But it is also important not to leave one's flies undone, kinda misses the point even if your braces and belt are so tight you are uncomfortable and unweildy.


D.

Bones

Hey Stuart, thanks for that observation. Yeah my thumb joint doesn't bend back that far but that picture of Paulus really shows how much power is behind his pick on the downstroke!