Why is the Nolan book so full of 13b9 chords?

t-bird

Buco wrote: »

I always saw those just as a way to walk the bass down when doing 2 5 1. So say Em7 with B in bass going to A7 so here you would flatten the 9 (or 2) of A7 so you would play A7 with Bb in bass but you keep the 13 shape because it's very similar to Em shape, and go to Dmaj7 with A in bass. So you get this little walking bass line going.
It's especially nice in tunes that have 3 6 2 5 like Coquette.
That's what I think when I see 13b9, I could be way off.

Ah. You are probably right about this. Upon further investigation, when I look at Coquette the chord fingering chart shows Dm7 with the 6th string 5th fret A in the bass. In fact, there is no D in this fingering. If he is going to the trouble of writing G9b13 why wouldn't he write Dm7/A?

May be an easier progression but I'm not convinced it sounds better.

Buco

spud wrote: »

Yes but the thing is he uses it systematically when the tonic chord has its root in the a string. No Matter What the melody. If the song is in g for example with the tonic on the low e string he uses Am6-D9 . He only uses the vb9 for the songs Where the tonic is on the a string

Ahh I see. Yes that sounds a bit odd. But he is a master of reharmonizing, I think that's his biggest strength. In his hands I'm sure it would sound awesome, he's not my favorite to listen to on the CD but I love hearing him live.
But maybe not the best way to write a chart to take it to the jam.

I think both @Jazzaferri and @ivyguitar are saying the same thing essentially only I don't think of it in terms of subs and what not, to me it's simply something that sounds nice and I remember the sound I want to achieve not the theory aspect. But yes, same thing different approach.

Jazzaferri

No you are not way off Buco, that is usually what is intended

Bones

I don't have those books but maybe he is just referring to the harmonic structure (theory). But for comping best to just stick to root, 3rd, 5th, b7th for dominants in general. Let the soloist define the color tones that they want. Esp I try to stick to mostly 3rd, 5th and b7th or even just just 3rds and b7ths especially if I am not sure what color tones to throw out. Makes life so much simpler.

jonpowl

Here is a scan of Coquette from Robin Nolan's Gig Book with plenty of 13b9s especially the A ending 1 & 3, for those that may not own Robin's books.

Stringswinger

The answer is simple: voice leading. The minor seven grip that Robin uses moves nicely into the 13 flat 9 grip (shape). If you do not like the tension created by the flat 9, do not use it. Robin deserves credit for putting a Gypsy jazz fakebook together before anyone else did. Like all fakebooks, it should be used as a learning tool, but should not be followed with blind faith. I have played with many European Gypsies and they all use various altered chords at times. But that does not mean that YOU have to.

My advice: Learn tunes, lots of them. Jazz is ear music, not eye music. Charts are a crutch. But nobody knows every tune, so we need to look at a fakebook at times. Try to learn the tune in one or two choruses while using the fakebook. Let your ears be the guide. If you like altered chords (and you are not getting in the way of the lead player) use them. If not don't. This music ain't rocket science. Try not to let too much jazz education get in the way of playing good music and you will be OK.

Bones

Yeah, what String said about charts. Learn (memorize) the basic harmonic structure (maj, min, 3rds, 7ths as applicable) and put the chart away. If ur head is down in the chart u are not listening to the rest of the band. This is heads up improvised music not the same every chorus. Even in a jam with a new song, once you have played this repertoire for a while you start to recognize repeated patterns in the chord charts so once or twice thru the form with the chart to note any particularities (usually in the B section) and you should be able to look away from the chart for the rest of the choruses.

As far as color tones, I'd add that if you have to ask you should probably steer clear of them for comping. One should generally stay in the mid/lower register anyway most (read: all) of the time for comping and I have personally never been a big fan of a lot of color tones in the low end anyway (always exceptions though, eg. min6 in a minor tune if it fits what is going on). If you are solid and covering the basic harmonic structure without color tones (as applicable) then everything will be cool. KISS and make sure it does not get too cluttered up. Keep practicing and expanding your ear/repertoire and you will figure out what you like the sound of but again if you are always putting in a b9 over a dominant (even if that is "correct") in a particular spot what if the soloist wants to use a 9th? You have them locked in to something different and if they insist and you are not listening then....

I hope that helps as far as comping. Soloing is a whole other topic...