Lydian dominant on a major V I?

Shemi

I bought Yaakov's "Ultimate Gypsy Run" lesson that goes over the Lydian Dominant scale. Is it a usable concept to employ when going to a major tonic chord as opposed to a minor tonic? If so, would it be using the same run as the relative minor, so A minor when going to a C tonic, or would it be using the parralel pattern i.e. thinking C minor when going to C?

I'm thinking that using the relative minor pattern gives the b9 and whereas the parralel pattern gives a b9 and #5. So maybe the latter can be used to get a more altered sound? It seems in the videos the parralel is the one Yakoov uses but he doesn't really explain this but it sounds better to my ears.

It's been a really useful thing to use when playing in minor keys, and a I've noticed it would be quite easy to modify the patterns/notes to play long triplet major ideas as well. I'm just curious as to how it could be used in the context of applying the original pattern in different harmonic situations.

richter4208

I don't have this lesson but I watched the youtube ad for it and learned the long form of the run he discusses. He talks about the 5th mode of harmonic minor which is lydian b9. That particular sound is used in my experience mostly leading to a minor chord.

As far as an altered sound used on the 5 chord leading to a Major I chord I've been transcribing lots of licks using melodic minor half step above the root of the 5 chord.

Regardless I like the ultimate gypsy lick......I've learned variations of that same lick with different fingerings thru watching Stochelo.

Shemi

Thanks Richter, I thought it was only to be used in minor keys but Yakoov uses it going to major chords in his playing examples but doesn't really explain it. I know it's used a lot over dominant chains.

Bones

If it is used over the V chord (i.e. A harmomonic minor used over an E7 chord) you get the b9/#5 sound I think. Sure you can use that resolving to A major NP. Why not if you like the sound?

Shemi

Yep, I should just experiment and not over think it I guess. Sometimes I think it sounds fine and other times not, and then wonder if my ear just needs time to adjust to a new sound. Incidentally, I noticed in Gonzalo's version of All of Me in the DC school package he uses essentially the A harmonic minor over the opening C chord and I really like the sound of the #5 in that instance.

Bones

Ah, interesting, then if you wanted you could just stay with the A harm minor over the next chord (E7)??? Then switch to D harm minor over the A7 to Dm. And on and on....

Jazzaferri

To be clear, the Lydian dominant scale is the fourth mode of the melodic minor not harmonic minor scale

In @Bones example A harmonic minor notes are A B C D E F G#

E 7 chord tones are E G# B D so you can see how nice a fit there is. All the chord tones are contained within the scale.

E Lydian dominant scale notes are E F# G# A# (the raised 4th "Lydian") B C# D (dominant 7th) Again all the chord tones are contained within the scale and if it is resolving back to the A major chord family A C# E F# (6) or G# (maj7) again one can see the nice fit of chord tones into the scale.

Resolving to an A minor A C E G (if minor seven) one has a few handle with care notes or if min6 A C E F# less to worry about.

Hope this helps clear up

Shemi

Doh! I meant Phrygian Dominant!lol

Bones

Oh ok, my bad. I thought Shemi said it was harmonic minor. I don't know much about modes and theory. I have my hands full just trying to remember where the notes are let alone why they are there. :-) No biggie anyway. If you like the way it sounds do it. All kinds of people use the V7b9 sound over dominant chords in all sorts of contexts in this style.

Jazzaferri

I practice and use the Phrygian dominant a lot on sax.

E Phrydom is E F G# A B C D

E7 notes E G# B D Note all chord tones are scale notes.

Am7 A C E G (the G G# is very handle with care) Alternately one could use A minMaj7 A C E G# and have all the chord tones in the scale

Am6 A C E F# less potential tension if you end up hanging on the G# while playing this chord

A7 A C# E G lots of potential crunch

A6 A C# E F# even more potential crunch

Have fun with it. Its a widely used mode in Indian and Middle Eastern music