Getting influences from classical improvisation

MikkoKarhula

Shemi wrote: »

Classical musicians don't practice improvisation usually as there is not much need for it's application in the realm of classical performance but there are other skills that need to be developed, such as sight reading, etc which take a lot of focus. Of course, a classically trained musician who goes into session work requires a level of ability in improvisation, but outside of that it's not a skill that's generally perceived as "needed".

Personally, I think it's a really good skill to acquire and it's helped me feel like a more rounded musician, but my teachers when I was studying didn't really understand why I wanted to learn to improvise.

If you have time, this masterclass with Tortelier is a great insight into the levels of mastery of detail people are striving for in classical terms. The students are amazing players but as soon as Tortelier plays and discusses you see another level. A piece like the Dvorak cello concerto can takes years and even decades of dedicated practice to nail on not only a technical level but also in it's interpretation. Consider that this is just one of a myriad of repertoire that needs to be learned and it's easy to understand why there isn't much time left for practicing improvisation.

Thank you Shemi!
Now I understand. That video was so inspiring. You really have to use a lot of time for interpretation to get the right level as this video shows. It might also be that everyone isn't interested in improvising or personality doesn't support that form of playing.

Shemi

Glad you enjoyed the video! Tortelier is one of my favourite musicians, so much mastery and depth of knowledge. :-)

MikkoKarhula

Shemi wrote: »

Glad you enjoyed the video! Tortelier is one of my favourite musicians, so much mastery and depth of knowledge. :-)

He truly seems to be a nice and interesting personality with incredible knowledge. It would be magnificent to get such a control of dynamics and etc. to own improvisation.

NylonDave

Nicely done Mikko, solid ideas.

MikkoKarhula

NylonDave wrote: »

Nicely done Mikko, solid ideas.

Thank you NylonDave!

Maybe too solid if thinking gypsy jazz or jazz improvisation. But I have this idea where one could mix this firm scheme to into jazz playing without losing its freedom and wildness. Hard task.

cheers!

Buco

The whole template of how you came up with a final thing is very cool and insightful. Start small and simple and build on. Love it.

Reminded me of this English class I took as an early immigrant to the US where the teacher though us to instead of writing the story or whatever you're trying to write by starting and writing as it's going to be more or less in the final version, just brainstorm the one word thoughts you have about what you want to say and only after you've exhausted those, then start writing to put it in the context of your story.

Jazzaferri

Bach was all about improvisation as was Beethoven and many others of the day. Classical music seems to have lost that bit mostly.

MikkoKarhula

Buco wrote: »

The whole template of how you came up with a final thing is very cool and insightful. Start small and simple and build on. Love it.

Reminded me of this English class I took as an early immigrant to the US where the teacher though us to instead of writing the story or whatever you're trying to write by starting and writing as it's going to be more or less in the final version, just brainstorm the one word thoughts you have about what you want to say and only after you've exhausted those, then start writing to put it in the context of your story.

Thank you Buco!

Your story is absolutely valuable. And I think that idea could help a lot writers and composers to finish their work. I'm using this brainstorm-method almost all the time and also visualization especially in composing. But thats more for situation where I want to have whole story (meaning what becomes whole composition) in head before I have it finished. But overall starting with one note and improvising other notes below or upper it can lead to whole story without one is aware about the whole story beforehand.

I feel a bit stupid to put these own videos here but here is one example where I improvised whole piece. I wanted to try what happens when I'm playing eyes shut and completely improvise. It was quite interesting what happened. First I normally don't move so much because I'm aware of my looks and movements. Secondly I feel that surroundings didn't mess my thoughts. I "saw" pictures randomly changing in my head. I didn't want to Impress with chops. I just wanted to make a song where everything grows naturally.

Cheers,

MikkoKarhula

Jazzaferri wrote: »

Bach was all about improvisation as was Beethoven and many others of the day. Classical music seems to have lost that bit mostly.

I personally think that these guys wouldn't be so productive if they could´t improvise.

Shemi

I think composing and improv are two sides of the same coin. Theoretically if one can compose it isn't too hard to imagine that the process could be shortened to the point it becomes an instantaneous flow, however that depends on the composer's process of course. To be able to improvise coherently within a complex musical structure to the level of Bach, et al, is monstrously difficult and I think is where the elusive "genius" sets them apart. I have come across some amazing classical musicians who were phenomenal improvisors, and one that I remember well was a lecturer at the conservatoire I went to who improvised a double fugue in a demonstration which was impressive to say the least!lol He was also a celebrated composer.