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Soloing using triads with enclosures

MikeKMikeK Asheville, NCNew Altamira M-30, Altamira M-10
in Technique Posts: 389
I recently took an online course from Yaakov Hoter on using triads with enclosures to solo over GJ tunes. For those that havent explored this, he basically teaches you to learn the major and minor triads in 3 different places on the neck, using familiar chord patterns we all learned when we first started playing guitar. In addition to employing those chord tones (the 1, 3 and 5), he teaches you to use the chromatic note below to approach the chord tone, and then use the diatonic note above the chord tone over major and minor chords, and to use the chromatic note above the chord tones over dominant 7 chords. I wonder what you all think of this technique? I've found it particularly helpful when at a jam and soloing over a tune for the first time. While i wouldnt use this exclusively, I have added it to my toolbox. I would appreciate readers' thoughts on this.
Buco

Comments

  • It seems like there are 2 schools of thought. One is to learn all the scales and their intervals, master them, and then play what you hear inside your head.

    The other school of though is to learn a bunch of licks and tricks and blend them together into something.

    In the end, I don't know if it matters which course you choose. If it sounds good it is good.
    The Magic really starts to happen when you can play it with your eyes closed
  • Posts: 4,816
    Why not use that approach exclusively or majority of the time? I agree with Jay, if it sounds good that's all it matters. That's not to say that's all you should ever do. But as Gonzalo once said in the class "I'd much rather listen to the player with a limited vocabulary but one who's solid at it, then someone trying a bunch of different ideas sloppily".
    Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
  • Elí SaúlElí Saúl Toluca, Mexico.New Dell'Arte DG-H2
    Posts: 104
    I find it harder to improvise thinking only on every chord as some kind of block, however i use triads a lot ever since i started transcibing bireli more often. He does this pretty cool ideas using triads and i really like that, Django was awesome doing this as well.
    I think of triads as superimpositons thinking either of a diatonic superimposition, intervallic or mode.
    However i just really think of this as something i see as "level of comprehension", which i fear my teachers may bash at me if i speak openly of this.
    Sometimes at least on the musical education i recieved over the years, its pretty hard to be spoken about musical intentions and motives outside of a theoretical context, always talking about extensions, wether if it its it's mode o not, scales that fit the chord tones. basically sometimes i thinks it's pretty wise to just think of something more charged on intentions and specific notes you want to be either be really close to your chord or just, extremely out of it, i find classical music to have a very advanced concept of what i aim for sound in my head. you can sense the viscerality of many of the greats compositions that sometimes jazz academics i feel they lack, however all the great jazz improvisers have this quality in common, they tend to be very expressive with their improvisation! i think you should stick to what speaks better of yourself when you improvise, be it on whatevr resources you find useful.

    I think when one takes a solo on an unknown tune usually you get to hear the chord progression at least one time for the head before actually having to improvise, that moment is key and really is challenging.
    If you are familiarized with structures and know how it goes like, ABA, AABA, BAC, ABCA etc. it can be prety useful, specially in tunes that were pop songs adapted to jazz beause while their harmony may vary a lot between one an other , the structure doesn't so much you get to identify where the tensions are and so pretty quickly.
    I know people who only need to take one listen to chord progression and are ready for it, that's what i aim for, still years left for me to practice.
    Buco
  • TDogTDog Victoria, BCNew Shelley Park Montmartre; Cigano GJ 5
    Posts: 37
    I am in the middle of Yaakov’s triad course - his approach has really helped me start to get away from playing scales and develop a more authentic gypsy sound. It is a little pricy but I would highly recommend it for beginner / intermediate players.
  • BonesBones Moderator
    edited October 2017 Posts: 3,320
    Speaking of triads there are a LOT of things to do with them besides enclosures. For example this one is really cool. Over a dominant chord you can just use the triad (I, III, V) of the chord and then add the triad of the 'tritone' substitute chord. So for an Ab7 chord (in the example below) he is just going back and forth between the Ab triad and the D triad as he ascends up the neck. A good way to memorize this pattern is that the pattern is the same on each pair of strings (6/5, 4/3, 2/1) EXCEPT you have to remember to change it going from the 3rd string to the 2nd string because of the tuning of the guitar. This gives you a really cool 'altered' dominant sound. The lick starts at around 4:08 in this vid. This idea is being used over the Ab7 chord that pops up in Swing Gitan.


    Buco
  • woodamandwoodamand Portland, OR✭✭✭ 2015 JWC Favino replica
    Posts: 227
    As much as I try to consciously play around the notes of he chords using triads, the only time I can make this work is when I am practicing. When I am playing out with anyone, all that lovely theory goes right out of my head, and I am just trying to think of something interesting to play some idea or other. I guess I have played by ear so long, that is what I know how to do. It would be great to be able to think chordally, and I am glad you folks can do it.
    TDog
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