Douce Ambiance Django's original chords vs commoly played today

Bones

Hey Buco, I'm calling that shape maestro! :-)

Yeah have not really listened to that section of the recording closely but I'll check it when I have a chance. Also maybe check his solo ideas in that section to give you clues as to his thinking? Certainly nothing 'wrong' with using F in that part but I'm just too deferential to impose that on a soloist and I can play stuff under it that works whether the soloist uses that F or not. And yeah, more power to you if you can learn a bunch of theory and names and stuff. Not saying it's a bad thing it's just one of my limitations and I'm not sure that it is 'necessary' but couldn't hurt. I think it's kind of just a different way of thinking of the same thing. Thinking of the stuff in terms of scale degrees (numbers) is more of a 'relative' thing but using the names (letters) is more of an 'absolute' thing (if that makes sense). For me thinking in 'absolute' terms is too confusing. I guess that is obvious since I'm having so much trouble describing it.

Conversely, if your band likes that sound then use it. What the heck. It's all good. People 'reharmonize' stuff all the time.

Buco

I'm really going by what I heard Jimmy Bruno say a couple of times: "you gotta know the notes in the chord that you just played" or something very similar. I forgot what the context was but it stuck with me because when Jimmy speaks I listen. And he is usually not hung up on conventional theory, just the opposite. Like he also says he never thinks in terms of scales but he the knows sound of each of the 12 notes against the given chord.

Bones

No doubt JB knows his stuff. Probably WAY over my head :-)

Ok I gave it a listen (1943 version). It's kind of hard to hear super clearly on my crappy computer speakers but I'm pretty sure the bass player is playing Ab in the root. As for Django's comping I think I do hear the F note (4th string 3rd fret) so maybe he is playing somthing like x331xx (or whatever he can get with 2 fingers) and that sounds fine over the melody. If the bass is playing Ab-Eb- and Django comps an Fm triad that is just Ab6 which works but again it imposes the 6th on the harmony on the soloist. In the context of the 'head' it doesn't really matter since the melody is just Ab Eb to D.

In his solos (2 choruses) he uses the F note in the first solo but in his second solo he is clearly playing a plain Ab triad so maybe he is thinking Ab major sixth (the F is the sixth degree of the Ab chord) but actually hard to know. Interestingly in his first solo he also plays a G note and a C and a B over the Ab so go figure that one out....it's beyond me to 'rationalize' but sounds cool. Maybe the B note is some sort of lower enclosure note thing with the C???

billyshakes

Bones,

The inversion of Fm we use is (4x35xx) which gives you Ab-F-C...that's Fm/Ab. One of those triadic chords you were talking about and a simple shape that Django likely played. You hear the Ab in the shape because it's the bass but as you said, if you take those notes and put them into an Ab root chord, it would have to be Ab6 and not Ab7.

Going back to shapes...if the G-6 shape of (3x23xx) is Generic Gypsy Chord Shape 1, I think the above inversion of the minor chord would be Generic Gypsy Chord Shape 1a!

Jazzaferri

I definitely agree with the idea of knowing the notes in a chord you are going to play or are playing. Even if you don't know the names you should be able to sound them out individually. Otherwise how can you know what is going on in your harmony. How each voicing leads to the next, which notes are rising which are falling and in some respects most importantly, which are staying the same.

Buco

Oh yeah Bones, the bass is going F to Ab to D so you heard that Ab correctly, I didn't get to figuring out the solo.
You also heard the F note on the 4th string correctly. You have to listen through the headphones or good speakers but I think Django is playing xx311x as Fm.

Bones

Ok yeah I believe it.

I really need to get a decent setup on the computer for both listening and recording. Not in the budget right now. Hopefully next year. You guys would laugh if you saw what I have right now. Computer barely runs and speakers are like 20 year old cheap junk that have massive amounts of background noise/hum. Ridiculous but just don't want to spend the $$$ to upgrade right now. So lame.

Jim Kaznosky

Because someone always has to throw a wrench, here is a Boulou Ferré Master Class where he teaches some interesting changes to Douce Ambiance.
http://gypsyguitarvideolessons.blogspot.com/2011/03/boulou-ferre-master-class-2010-douce.html

NylonDave

If you want to use Fm in the tune there are a load of ways it could work.

First that springs to mind is to substitute Eb for Cm on bar five. ii V would be Fm Bb7.

You could do (from bar three)



Gm F7 Fm Bb7 Eb6

or Gm C7 Fm Bb7 Eb6

or Gm Gb7b5 Fm B7 Eb6

or Gm/Bb F7/A,Fm/Ab Abdim, Eb6/G

I really like the last one, try singing the tuned over it to hear how cute it is.

Structural chords are what count really, interesting ways of moving between them are colour and if you lose track of the structural chords because of the colours then it can seem super confusing.

Another few ways

Gm D7/Fsharp, Fm Fdim Eb6

or Gm D7/Fsharp, Fm E7b5 Eb6

There are basically an infinite amount of ways. I think it is much more important to build a vocabulary based on what YOU like based on your own experimentation and taste. For me the thing that is MOST crucial is to sing the melody as you experiment. The tune will keep you grounded in the real structure of the song and the points of arrival (ie STRUCTURAL CHORDS) will start to pop out and the passing chords will start to be a fun game rather than a competition for authenticity.

I remember when I played more fingerstyle blues there would be people boasting about how authentic their playing was and they would refuse to attempt to play a piece in a different key because it would not be true to their hero's intent. And I thought it was funny because their hero had clearly tossed it off and would bluff through the piece in a different key for a singer at the drop of a hat with absolutely no concern for authenticity but trusting to their taste and experience and maybe something nice happening because of a mistake somewhere along the line. I am sure you can guess how the authentic guys sounded.....And the reason that they wouldn't transpose or reharmonise or change the texture was because they lacked the skill and the ears.

Put yourself in Django's SHOES and take the tune for a walk. Don't worry getting authentic starch for your collar, you'll just end up getting hung up.

D.

Buco

Bones, if you don't want to wait to get to audio nirvana and don't mind the in-ear headphones then check out the KZ line of headphones on Amazon. They're incredibly good sounding for a stupid low price. I have the ATE model which I paid and it still sells for $13. They have since released new model and they're getting progressively better. These aren't just decent headphones, they're are a true audiophile level.

Thanks for the video Jim, I'll check it out. Tcha did a similar thing at DiJ:


I'll give those variations a shot Dave, thanks.