Django's timing

Buco · May 2018

I think I saw something on YouTube that says"play like Django". I'll look for it, that could be what you're talking about.

Pompier · May 2018

One of my most treasured discoveries that I've made since I got the GJ bug a few months ago has been an entirely new perspective on Swing era jazz. When I listened to this music at an earlier time of my life, much of it sounded charming, but generally also somewhat primitive and dull. I'm now realizing that I used to listen to Swing with "post-bop ears", which were rather missing the point, and the point has a lot to do with -- appropriately enough -- swing. That's not to say that post-war jazz musicians didn't swing; it's a matter of focus. In later music, the focus largely shifted to weaving long elaborate melodies. In the swing era, the focus was generally much more on the rhythmic qualities of the improvisation. Even great musicians who had a more "floating" style, like Billie Holiday and Lester Young, had a depth that came largely from incredibly sophisticated rhythmic placement of the notes -- a different form of swing.

I think the contrast between Django and Grappelli is pretty illuminating. Grappelli had a fantastic sense of swing, but he placed a lot of focus on building long coherent lines. In that respect, even if his lines had fewer "out" notes than Django's, his playing is closer to post-bop sensibilities. Django could invent long lines as brilliant as the best of 'em, but oftentimes it used to sound to me like he was just noodling around groping for an idea. Then it clicked -- I was missing the action, which was in the rhythm.

To bring this long preamble to Buco's question, swing is notoriously difficult to analyze, but if there's an insightful analysis of it relevant to Django's playing to be found, it might actually well be something written about Louis Armstrong. I hear a good deal of affinity in the rhythmic sensibility between the two of them, and unlike Django's rhythm, which has been somewhat overlooked, Armstrong's sense of swing is one of the most celebrated talents in music history. There's a quasi-messianic moment on his recording of Chimes Blues with King Oliver's band. His solo isn't improvised and it's not particularly remarkable melodically, but the musicians who heard it were reportedly blown away by its sense of swing, which was something no one had heard before him. You can hear the same contrast on the Hot Fives, where Armstrong sounds like he has an entire rhythm section in his mouth, and it's playing something that the actual rhythm section hasn't learned to play yet.

Just an idea.

Elí Saúl · May 2018

Well, i haven't seen some book on it but, Django was a total Jazz man, most say that he pushed the beat a little which is true, however he could play laidback as well and he would often switch between one and other, and i don't believe he thought of it much it might have been the result of his practicing, taste and overall musicality.

He was extremely cautious of his articulations, he never just played notes without intention and a coherent musicality. I think there are many solos o him where you can appreciate what he does, Sheik of Araby, After you've gone, check out his version of honeysuckle rose with Duke Ellington, he plays some of the pases with a very laidback feel, theres this 2-5 phrase that he nails so damn nice! beautiful interpretation.

Chiefbigeasy · May 2018

This discussion comes up an interesting time for me because as I am getting out to play in front of others on a more regular basis, I’m trying to examine my playing through my own recollection of the gig, but also through recordings my friends have made.

As I try to figure out what’s wrong with my playing when I hear mistakes, I initially notice the incorrect note I may have missed or fumbled through. Perhaps more importantly, however, is the missed beat. I notice, for example, especially when I’m trying to reproduce a Django solo, that I may actually have the correct notes, but I am behind or off the beat on some of them, having fumbled my way to the fret or misplaced my finger on the wrong string. (Those 3F major arpeggio statements in “I’ll See You in My Dreams” can be a killer!)

Oddly enough, what has saved me during some solos is missing or muffing the note, but actually hitting the string in stride rhythmically correctly. To the listener, it may sound as if there is a space in the run, or they may hear the click of my pick on the string. Nonetheless, if it all stays with rhythmically correct, it doesn’t sound so bad.

My go-to approach to correct my playing while on stage if I’m having this kind of trouble, is to play more simple lines, but keep them swinging dead on rhythmically.

Buco · May 2018

Chief, the teacher in Chicago I mentioned earlier always stressed that the groove if far more important than the notes.
And haha, we're in the same boat with those arps over I'll see you. I'm hoping to nail the damn thing before the old age sets in.

I heard that many times, if you want to get down to the source of Django's phrasing then start listening to Louis. I never got very familiar with his solo playing. Part of the problem is his vocalist albums always seemed to be the only thing you can find. On those he would state the melody and sing but wouldn't improvise. Another thing is that the guitar was always my preferred instrument to listen to. I heard the opposite from people on the forum, that they play guitar but almost never listen to jazz guitar soloists. Not me, guitar is/was always the instrument of choice.

Elí Saúl wrote: »

Django was a total Jazz man.

That about sums it up.

bopster · May 2018

@Buco - if anyone would know about (and write about) Django’s timing, it would be Denis.

Matteo · May 2018

Here's a very good discussion between Yakov Hooter and Evan Christopher on this topic (perhaps the one that was alluded to in an earlier post?):

Buco · May 2018

Yes this video is great and talks about that.

I thought maybe Bill was thinking this one:

By the way, Evan is one of those players that immediately turns heads. It takes a few notes from him to start paying attention and listening. I love when says playful instead of swinging.