Two-finger playing .........it's not just a gimmick

Sabicas · November 2018

Wim Glenn wrote: »

So, yeah, it's definitely not a gimmick, and it's good to learn to play that way. But it's really not "The One True Way", and thinking of the pinky as a "dead-end" is a mistake IMO.

I'm not a "one true way" dogmatic type. To be clear, the "dead-end" comment is meant as purely physical. If I'm heading up the neck horizontally, the pinky seems to lock me into the position I'm in. For me it's good to use the pinky when changing directions, to reach out and grab a note before turning and heading back down the neck. Maybe I should have used the term "cul-de-sac" instead.

Another "cul-de-sac" situation.....Something I've been trying is to do away with barring two adjacent strings with one finger. Where before, I might have barred two notes with the ring finger in an arpeggio, I'll attempt one of those notes with the index and the other with the middle. It might seem clumsy, at first, but it sounds better to my ear as each note is staccato instead of one ringing. It also leaves me in a more balanced hand position to keep moving any direction I choose.

I hope that makes sense.

In the end, I'll continue to use the pinky and barres when absolutely necessary, but I've already starting to look at them as sometimes-necessary compromises when moving horizontally and I believe my playing to be improving quickly with this method. The goal is freedom of movement to result in freedom of expression.

Bones · November 2018

Thanks Wim! I'm finally inspired to really work on the diminished arps (as opposed to dom7b9 ideas).

Sabicas · November 2018

Ok, maybe I'm a freak, but I spent a long while on the dim7 "staircase" last night with with different finger combinations, 2-notes per string. I had previously been using fingers 1 and 4, with pretty weak results. I gave it a shot with 1 & 3 with not much improvement. Then I tried it with 1 & 2 and was nailing it in no time, with authority. I've always been a believer in economy of motion but I now feel like there are more important factors. My hand has to move a lot of get it done with fingers 1 & 2, but it just comes out fast, accurate and sounding right. I like how the small and unintentional glissando that just happens when stretching across 3 frets.

I am turning my palm outwards to give my fingers more stretch where I used to have it parallel to the neck when playing "properly". At times, the first knuckle of my index is touching the bottom of the fretboard.

wim · November 2018

Many players in the GJ style naturally use a rotated left wrist. I guess that's another reason why 1 and 4 can be difficult - since the pinky is short, you'd tend to twist your hand back "classical" so the palm was more parallel to the neck again.

Another thought I had: for ascending dim7 arpeggios, the distance between frets gets smaller as you're going up the neck. So with 1 + 4 it may start out comfortable enough for the first 2 notes, but then as you ascend the crowding of fingers just keeps getting worse. Whereas, if you initially start out with 1 + 3 or 1 + 2, the stretch is getting less / easier as you ascend.

Buco · November 2018

Does everyone stick to 2 notes per string pattern?
The pattern I've been practicing is that while descending, G string is one note per, and 2 notes per string ascending. Also while descending I'm using fingers 1 and 4 mostly and 1 and 3 while ascending.
It's a lot of writing to explain, it would be better and easier to make a video if need be.

Jim Kaznosky · November 2018

I do that all the time. I suppose it depends on where you want to end up or resolve.

Buco · November 2018

Ha, I wanna end up on my feet, that's my only goal.

Bones · November 2018

Hey Buco, yes for the 'horizontal' 'stairs' pattern it is 2 notes per string I think. For a 'vertical' pattern you have the one weird note on the G string and the only way to get around that that I can think of when descending is to just hit the same note twice if you want to be able to use alternate picking the whole time on a fast lick. Or else you just have to get fast at the double down or use some other trick I guess.

If I correctly understand your question??

Buco · November 2018

@Bones I guess, I don't know, my formal training has always been lacking. I never learned it as either horizontal or vertical, I just figured out the fingering I thought works best. Now I'm thinking I'm over complicating matters, looks like the horizontal way is much more straight forward. I'll try to include both.

And yeah, I'm doing double down when going back up. Interestingly you mention "or some other trick". Because just yesterday I finally sat down to figure out Angelo's iconic intro to Swing Gitan, a bit of a milestone for me because when I was getting into playing this style in '04-5, I got a Birdland live DVD, and after watching that intro, I was thinking to myself "wow maybe one day I'll be able to play that".
Anyway, when he plays D7 arp going back up to conclude the whole thing, he's doing exactly that, plays extra stroke on the 7th so that he doesn't have to double down to wrap it up. Kinda surprised me because I thought his ability to play consecutive double down strokes is limitless but here he made his life simpler.