Hello and a question.

OneLineWonder

I was looking up old gibsons the a few days ago and randomly saw a clip of a guy playing a Henri Miller guitar. I'm having no luck finding out any amount of information about them or where to buy them at all. I even set google to google France and was still coming up empty.

It's like a great conspiracy! I wish I had bought the one that the guy had on reverb while he had it around 500 bucks, but I balked due to the extra 170 shipping, now he's raised it to 900 (plus shipping)

so what's the deal with these guitars, where can you buy them, and why is it so hard to find any vids or articles about them?

Thanks!

ChrisMartin

Common enough in France.

I think they were fairly inexpensive but I have heard some that sounded really good.

They were made in Poussay near Mirecourt and if you Google - Henri Miller Mirecourt - you will find a lot of info and photos.

There are usually a few listed on leboncoin at;

https://www.leboncoin.fr/recherche/?category=30&text=henri%20miller

but most on there are for personal collection for cash only; many private sellers are reluctant to ship anything, certainly not internationally.

Otherwise try a search on ebay.fr or keep watching Reverb. The former may have some listed for worldwide sales "Monde entier" the latter is usually higher prices but they are mostly professional dealers so can ship reliably.

Good luck.

OneLineWonder

Thanks!!!

This is the guitar I heard that made me instantly want it, it's got killer tone, even the buzzing seems to fit right in with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=118&v=cLIyLw30ky0&feature=emb_title

But I can't lay down a grand for that, I'd get a guild F-50 or hold off for a Gibson SJ

ChrisMartin

Yes, I suspect that Youtube demo is by the same guy who has the one for sale on Reverb. Curious that he is playing with a thumbpick but I guess from the rest of his stock - a lot of Martins and Gibsons - he is not a GJ player anyway. If you say he had it listed cheaper before he may consider an offer. These usually sell much cheaper anyway, and as it is not in the same league as the rest of his stock he may be happy to move it on. Worth a try. Also I don't know why he asked so much for shipping, I have bought many guitars from France and safely boxed for shipping it would weigh in at under 5kgs. For that the standard cost by the French parcel system they call 'colissimo' they usually cost me 55 Euros to Australia; I have never paid more and that includes a tracking number and usually gets here in a week. Try asking.

crookedpinky

https://reverb.com/item/18835135-guitare-jazz-manouche-luthier-miller-mirecourt-annees1950-60

I googled Henri Miller Mirecourt anf found quite a few. Here's one link.

However as a previous poster said sometimes the French sellers are reluctant to send overseas.

AndyW

the *real* bargains are maybe amongst the www.interencheres.com auction listings: that Beuscher, Lot 335, is a re-labelled Henri Miller, I think (help me out here, Chris!), and I'll take the big re-labelled Gerome (plus one other guitar) for 100 Euros any day. Sometimes the auction house can arrange shipping to UK and USA, sometimes you've got to organise it yourself, its up to you & your French language skills to arrange ;-P

ChrisMartin

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/100202#Comment_100202

That auction sire does throw up some interesting guitars occasionally but the so called 'estimates' are kept deliberately low so as to attract bids; what they call in the trade 'come and get me' prices. Leon Agel was another retailer in Paris (not as well known as Beuscher) so presumably there is a label on the Gerome, hence the identification.

But the Beuscher does not look like a Henri Miller - they were generally smaller than most - but looks to me like a Castelluccia, many of which do turn up with Beuscher labels. I would be interested to know what the 'damages' are, but no, don't tempt me I already have too many guitars !

As for shipping, I have never asked interencheres if they have any arrangement but luckily I have a friend in France anyway who can forward anything I can't get shipped direct.

OneLineWonder

Wow, thanks for all the input. I am not stuck on the brand so much as the tone. The fret buzz is a little much, but that slow deep metallic bass gets me. (I'm a novice, I'm not sure how to describe it)

A lot of the newer similar style guitars don't seem to have that same sound. From what I've read though, the henri millers are kinda cheaply made and not worth as much as other brands, I was trying to find something in the 300-500 dollar range.

ChrisMartin

If you like the sound and certainly Henri Miller guitars should fall into your price range then go for it. There will be many label snobs on this forum (and others) who will tell you why you need to spend at least his or that, to get what they regard as the proper sound, but ignore them and go for what works for you. While the sheep choose to follow each other, the real individuals find their own voice.

Buco

I don't think it's snobbery Chris. To begin with there's no cheap guitar in this genre. $500 will go a long way in other styles. The problem is cheap guitars in this genre are very rarely set up to play their best. And I'm of thinking that that's number one reason to like this or that guitar, it needs to feel good under your fingers. Then people get something on the budget but will bulk up at the $200 cost of a full setup. Understandable as it is, I always say don't miss the opportunity to get your instrument play the very best it can. But I get it, sometimes people think well what if I spend the extra money and still don't like it... A lot of people can do the job themselves so that's the best scenario. Then after having a budget guitar for a while they might try an expensive hand made instrument, usually set up well, and go "whoa that feels great! That's what the big bucks are for". Sometimes I'm sure it's just for the sake of owning the work by this or that luthier but I think a lot of times it's just not spending a little extra effort and $$ to get it to sound it's best. My guitar is a handmade instrument but at the cost of 2K kind of a bargain in this world but I haven't picked up very many guitars that made me feel I need to step up. One Favino (I tried others that didn't do it for me) one Holo (others I tried were all great instruments but again I never fell in love immediately), one who's maker I don't remember (the owner was selling another one from the same maker which didn't do anything for me) and Wim's Barault 503 (again I tried others that I didn't feel like running away with)... maybe a few more but you get the idea, I tried many times more GJ guitars. Bottom line is what you said often play and see if it's asking to take it home with you. On that video that's linked i certainly like the sound of that Miller a lot.

PS I should add that I know the owners of some guitars i tried and wasn't crazy about it, are absolutely in love with them. This stuff is very, very, very subjective.

ChrisMartin

Ok, well maybe for some it is not 'label snobbery' but that certainly is rife. I have yet to find any special interest market that is as easily led as guitarists can be; I am old enough to remember when that whole pre-CBS Fender thing took off and back then in the '70s a new Fender was always rubbished along with anything Japanese. Now look what the market is asking for a '70s Fender, Yamaha or Ibanez.

Yes of course it makes sense to get the best instrument you can that suits your needs and wants but it does rather follow a pattern whenever someone comes on here (or other forums) and asks about this or that guitar and the inevitable comments soon follow; "oh, nothing beats a **** " or " spend the extra and get a ***** " and even " a new guitar can never sound as good as a genuine vintage ***** ". Now some of this may be well meaning if a little naive but often guitarists just like to score points in the 'look what I've got' stakes.

As I have said many times on here, 90% or more, of the sound comes from the player rather than the instrument. A good example of that is a brief jam in someone's kitchen on Youtube (i'll see if I can find the link again later) with Tchavolo and Angelo and the latter is playing a $300 Lag dreadnought, presumably he just grabbed whatever was lying around, and yes, he still sounded like Angelo. Maybe that is not surprising though now I think about it, surely nobody has gone through more guitars as freebies in the signature model scam than Angelo. Another had Stochelo playing a Cigano (I think) and obviously sounding way better than most of us would armed with a twenty grand Busato.

I too have a hand-made instrument which is my constant #1; a 'Chorus' style model made by Tony Petrarca in France; not one of the top names, or even very prolific, but what he does he does very well. This one was made to my specs after discussing my preferences and leaving some details up to him, but it sounds good and fits me well. Plus it looks nice too, but I doubt the name will impress at the jam. Other than that one, I have found guitars that suit me and some that don't and the name on the headstock has never swayed my opinion. That Castelluccia is still for sale (no idea why it has not sold) as although it has a great sound I can't get comfortable with the neck. Maybe I should try harder with it, bit I find it a little chunky, same as I find the neck on my Gitane DG255 too slim and for the comfort of my left hand, apart from the Petrarca, I keep coming back to Di Mauros, but conversely they lack a little in volume.

The three requirements with any guitar should be: 1 -a neck and playable setup that is comfortable, 2 - the desired sound, both in terms of tone and volume, and 3 - aesthetics; design, fit, finish etc.

So, what I am saying re the Henri Miller, yes the Barrault, Dupont, Hahl or Holo players will probably consider it rather cheap and crude but if it produces the tone you like that is half the battle won. Now if it fits you physically too you may have your ideal guitar for Cigano money but even if it is not quite right, following Buco's advice above a few dollars spent with a luthier on setup should get it sorted.