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Sicilian gypsy folk guitar

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  • AndyWAndyW Glasgow Scotland UK✭✭✭ Clarinets & Saxes- Selmer, Conn, Buescher, Leblanc et.al. // Guitars: Gerome, Caponnetto, Napoli, Musicalia, Bucolo, Sanchez et. al.
    edited June 2021 Posts: 603

    two borrowed close-ups of the "Agatino Patané", recently for sale in Germany

    *first point* - I'm not sure where they pulled the "Agatino Patané" attribution from, although they do mention Stefano Caponnetto in the listing.

    [ The importer ("vertreter") label is 100% in German, for C. Notari of the town of Luchsingen in Switzerland.

    Notari imported Italian Instruments and published a fortnightly magazine for Mandolin players, "Mandolinismo", hence the inlaid importers mark]


    *second point - looks to me like the top has shrunk & been removed / re-glued.

    [ EDIT - no, it’s the top and back overlapping the recessed sides, violin-style / cello-style ]


    *third point - looking at the finish, has that MOP/inlay been done at a later date??




    hmm, I might be tempted to re-attribute to Caponnetto.

    Who was it said "Any old idiot can be an expert on the internet" ;-)

    billyshakesBillDaCostaWilliams
  • AndyWAndyW Glasgow Scotland UK✭✭✭ Clarinets & Saxes- Selmer, Conn, Buescher, Leblanc et.al. // Guitars: Gerome, Caponnetto, Napoli, Musicalia, Bucolo, Sanchez et. al.
    edited June 2021 Posts: 603

    researching "Mandolinismo", I found this document on a Dutch collection, this might be the source of the the German shop's "Patané" attribution.


    available as a PDF file:

    https://www.fsminternationalart.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/GuitarCollectieLR.pdf

    see page 16/17/18 , the Italian section.

    There are some really beautiful & rare instruments here, including a few attractive gypsy-style guitars.

    for e.g. a pre-war "C.Garozzo", anyone?


    n.b there's a later section on "Jazz and Gypsy guitars", page 26 onwards, with some more familiar names.

    BucobillyshakesBillDaCostaWilliams
  • AndyWAndyW Glasgow Scotland UK✭✭✭ Clarinets & Saxes- Selmer, Conn, Buescher, Leblanc et.al. // Guitars: Gerome, Caponnetto, Napoli, Musicalia, Bucolo, Sanchez et. al.
    edited June 2021 Posts: 603

    from facebook, another Stefano Caponnetto with the mother of pearl inlay work. Seems I’m wrong thinking it’s not original.

    p.s. I see that Dutch collector has misidentified, imho, a Carmelo Catania Mod. 22 as a Patane, and has possibly another Carmelo Catania misidentified , so I’m doubtful about their authority. But I’m happy to admit- I’m no expert.

  • AndyWAndyW Glasgow Scotland UK✭✭✭ Clarinets & Saxes- Selmer, Conn, Buescher, Leblanc et.al. // Guitars: Gerome, Caponnetto, Napoli, Musicalia, Bucolo, Sanchez et. al.
    edited June 2021 Posts: 603

    lots of good music & still pics of Storro Limberger (& friends) with his "Pavone" S.Caponnetto / V.Miroglio in this video:



    pretty sure Storro's is the same guitar that was in Leo Eimer's workshop (& website) in Amsterdam.

    [ Pic borrowed from "Marius Guitar " thread on this forum.]

    billyshakes
  • ChrisMartinChrisMartin Shellharbour NSW Australia✭✭ Di Mauro x2, Petrarca, Genovesi, Burns, Kremona Zornitsa & Paul Beuscher resonator.
    edited June 2021 Posts: 959

    Yeah, I suspect there would have been a lot of cross-pollination in Catania in period. There were many luthiers working in what was probably a close-knit community. It would seem that Carmelo Catania had the biggest output but I wonder how many of the lesser known names got their start with him and then set up on their own.

    Fetish Guitars site has some useful history of the Catanian luthiers, appreantly all starting from the Puglisi family.

    Annoyingly it also includes the common error that Busato and Favino came from Sicily. Busato was born in Chiuppano a hamlet about 50 miles north-west of Venice. Favino was born in Trecate in the Piedmont region in the north of Italy.

    There is not much info about Agatino Patane; even Fetish Guitars site only has this:

    There are a few other names listed on there but no info for dates etc.

    There is another with similar 'lyrebird' decoration credited to Salvatore D'Angelo on this page:


    Some nice guitars from Caponetto there too:

    None of which really helps answer our questions except to show there were a few very creative minds at work there.

    As for the MOP (or abalone?) inlays, no it did not seem common among the Catanians but it is possible Patane sourced some just to go one better in the bling stakes?

    And I had never heard of Garozzo, he is not listed on this website either.

    Anyway, I am enjoying your finds, keep 'em coming!

    billyshakesAndyW
  • AndyWAndyW Glasgow Scotland UK✭✭✭ Clarinets & Saxes- Selmer, Conn, Buescher, Leblanc et.al. // Guitars: Gerome, Caponnetto, Napoli, Musicalia, Bucolo, Sanchez et. al.
    edited June 2021 Posts: 603

    I'm sure most of you are thoroughly sick of these posts, but please allow me just one more, to share a few pictures of other large Sicilian "cello" guitars that have on file:

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    a "Marius"

    [note that Caponnetto also made some guitars with bean-shaped hanging hole in headstock and slight "German carve" back and top

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Two x [ EDIT THREE x ] "Vincenzo Miroglio"



    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    EDIT - also a Giuseppe Indelicato Contarino with the same body style: NB owner says dark/ black body finish was stripped to natural wood.

    ---------------------------

    EDIT 2 - another big scroll-headed Caponnetto, restored in France. I’m starting to think the fretboard inlays show the rooftops of Catania in front of Mount Etna 😉🌋


    --------------------------------------

    my general impression, based on pictures, numbers, labels & Google... (your mileage may vary):

    "Marius": possibly an import/distribution brand mark

    "Agatino Patané" (Catania): The one in the Dutch collection & one in the German shop are, imho, possibly mis-attributions: Patané did make similar sized/shaped guitars

    "Vincenzo Miroglio" & "Stefano Caponnetto" - the two manufacturers of guitars with these type of bodies, both with workshops in Catania.

    I can't tell if one workshop is buying(?) & finishing some of the other's instruments, or they're both making very similar body styles independently. There might be something different about the shape of the body cutaway that I'm seeing.

    Curved intaglio arm-rest with Lyre, mother of pearl or wider edge inlays seem indicative of Caponnetto. Maybe.

    -A-

  • ChrisMartinChrisMartin Shellharbour NSW Australia✭✭ Di Mauro x2, Petrarca, Genovesi, Burns, Kremona Zornitsa & Paul Beuscher resonator.
    Posts: 959

    Don't apologise AndyW, these guitars are as relevant as any in the history of European guitar playing and probably crossed over with the better known Paris based SelMac copies in the hands of travelling musos. Same with German archtops, I am sure they would have their place in Euro-Jazz too.

    And apart from all that, I am sure there are many reading here who are just guitar nerds anyway (like me).

    AndyWBillDaCostaWilliams
  • AndyWAndyW Glasgow Scotland UK✭✭✭ Clarinets & Saxes- Selmer, Conn, Buescher, Leblanc et.al. // Guitars: Gerome, Caponnetto, Napoli, Musicalia, Bucolo, Sanchez et. al.
    edited June 2021 Posts: 603

    Cheers, Chris. Funny to think that my ‘new’ Caponnetto, and two of the Caponnettos on the Fetish-guitars site were all originally retailed through the dealer “"el equipo del musico"/ “A J Castilo” in Caracas. Particularly suited to something in Venezuelan guitar music, perhaps...

  • ChrisMartinChrisMartin Shellharbour NSW Australia✭✭ Di Mauro x2, Petrarca, Genovesi, Burns, Kremona Zornitsa & Paul Beuscher resonator.
    Posts: 959

    Or maybe just that the various makers had their own deals with distributors and for Italian guitars in Venezuela he was the man. I would suspect in the age before internet such arrangements would have been common and certainly from my research in the vintage car field, there were a lot of Italian businesses dealing with South America. But, does that now give us a clue where to go looking for such gems?

    AndyW
  • AndyWAndyW Glasgow Scotland UK✭✭✭ Clarinets & Saxes- Selmer, Conn, Buescher, Leblanc et.al. // Guitars: Gerome, Caponnetto, Napoli, Musicalia, Bucolo, Sanchez et. al.
    edited June 2021 Posts: 603

    We should take your Kremona and my Caponnetto and record some authentic Sicilian-Venezuelan-Scottish-Australian- Bulgarian gypsy-jazz 😏

    ChrisMartin
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