juandererNewALD Original, Manouche Latcho Drom Djangology Koa, Caro y Topete AR 740 O
Posts: 205
IMO it's a function of density and not that a certain wood is more magical than the next. Of course you can't control (at least not to that extent, at least) how a tree grows, so that's where the lottery/approximation aspect of the equation comes in.
If a guitar has an excellent top and is built well, chances are it will sound great. I'd personally pay attention to the rest of it for aesthetic appeal almost exclusively.
perhaps related to this subject we discuss, and forgive if not...
what are maybe some "x-factors" associate to gypsy jazz guitars which might make certain ones more desirable over others? small things only those in the know might seek out or discern.
speculation; can the old glues, varnishes, etc. no longer made contribute something extra (maybe "magical") to the sound?
speculation; can the old glues, varnishes, etc. no longer made contribute something extra (maybe "magical") to the sound?
@gambit there's a lot of mythology surrounding the use of various materials, glues, hardware, etc. It's very difficult to tease out how much difference say a rosewood fingerboard makes over an ebony one, or hide/fish glue vs synthetic glue. In all cases, the quality of one component will not make an otherwise substandard instrument sing. Lutherie is as much art as science, and the best makers are much like world class chefs who understand the delicate balance of elements so well that they can achieve excellent results using almost anything.
Ultimately, the two most important elemetns of a great guitar are:
1) The skill and experience of the luthier
2) The age and quality of the wood
While many things may be too subtle to hear, nearly everyone can hear the difference of a 40 year aged top vs 5 year (or a 5 year vs a sub 1 year.)
Lutherie is as much art as science, and the best makers are much like world class chefs who understand the delicate balance of elements so well that they can achieve excellent results using almost anything.
Ha, how about a new reality show called "Top Luthier." Today's challenge: build a guitar out of wood chips, soda cans, and saran wrap.
juandererNewALD Original, Manouche Latcho Drom Djangology Koa, Caro y Topete AR 740 O
Taylor built a guitar out of an old wood pallet some years ago to demonstrate how a decent guitar could be made from any old wood.
Torres famously built a guitar with a back and sides made from papier mâché. I think he wanted to demonstrate the over riding importance of the top wood.
Stradivarious reportedly used to buy his varnish from the local alchemist. I love that idea if its true.
Back in high school I helped a friend build an acoustic guitar for some sort of science competition. We weren't allowed to use any materials meant for building an instrument so we used heavy sheets of plastic for the body and the neck was made out of a mdf table top we laminated... no need for a truss rod there 😂 it played like a tree trunk but in the end the body still resonated and it made decent volume. So I guess anything is possible!
speculation; can the old glues, varnishes, etc. no longer made contribute something extra (maybe "magical") to the sound?
@gambit I'm not a luthier but the one thing I'd say is the type of finish would make a noticeable difference. Say for example a guitar with a high gloss finish and the same model with an oil finish. Id expect the latter to sound more open and "worn in" vs the high gloss that would take a considerable amount of playing to achieve a similar openness. I've always been a sucker for non-gloss finishes for that reason, but the difference probably becomes less noticeable when you're on the high end of the guitar spectrum.
Say for example a guitar with a high gloss finish and the same model with an oil finish.
I can offer something from a personal experience here too besides that fretboard replacement. This winter I decided to refinish my guitar (for a few different reasons, having a fresh look being just one of them). It used to have some sort of lacquer, I'm not familiar with the different types. I stripped it by hand, left it natural (it was stained previously) and finished with Tru-Oil. A friend who heard my guitar in many different situations said it was amazing how much louder it was when I brought it to the jam (where we usually sit next to each other) after the job was done. It was not a quiet guitar to begin with. I'd add that it just opened, it can freely resonate and breath. My bandmates said pretty much the same.
Comments
IMO it's a function of density and not that a certain wood is more magical than the next. Of course you can't control (at least not to that extent, at least) how a tree grows, so that's where the lottery/approximation aspect of the equation comes in.
If a guitar has an excellent top and is built well, chances are it will sound great. I'd personally pay attention to the rest of it for aesthetic appeal almost exclusively.
greets,
attention M. Horowitz et al:
perhaps related to this subject we discuss, and forgive if not...
what are maybe some "x-factors" associate to gypsy jazz guitars which might make certain ones more desirable over others? small things only those in the know might seek out or discern.
speculation; can the old glues, varnishes, etc. no longer made contribute something extra (maybe "magical") to the sound?
many kind thanks~
bonne soirée
speculation; can the old glues, varnishes, etc. no longer made contribute something extra (maybe "magical") to the sound?
@gambit there's a lot of mythology surrounding the use of various materials, glues, hardware, etc. It's very difficult to tease out how much difference say a rosewood fingerboard makes over an ebony one, or hide/fish glue vs synthetic glue. In all cases, the quality of one component will not make an otherwise substandard instrument sing. Lutherie is as much art as science, and the best makers are much like world class chefs who understand the delicate balance of elements so well that they can achieve excellent results using almost anything.
Ultimately, the two most important elemetns of a great guitar are:
1) The skill and experience of the luthier
2) The age and quality of the wood
While many things may be too subtle to hear, nearly everyone can hear the difference of a 40 year aged top vs 5 year (or a 5 year vs a sub 1 year.)
Lutherie is as much art as science, and the best makers are much like world class chefs who understand the delicate balance of elements so well that they can achieve excellent results using almost anything.
Ha, how about a new reality show called "Top Luthier." Today's challenge: build a guitar out of wood chips, soda cans, and saran wrap.
I'd watch that.
Taylor built a guitar out of an old wood pallet some years ago to demonstrate how a decent guitar could be made from any old wood.
Torres famously built a guitar with a back and sides made from papier mâché. I think he wanted to demonstrate the over riding importance of the top wood.
Stradivarious reportedly used to buy his varnish from the local alchemist. I love that idea if its true.
Back in high school I helped a friend build an acoustic guitar for some sort of science competition. We weren't allowed to use any materials meant for building an instrument so we used heavy sheets of plastic for the body and the neck was made out of a mdf table top we laminated... no need for a truss rod there 😂 it played like a tree trunk but in the end the body still resonated and it made decent volume. So I guess anything is possible!
speculation; can the old glues, varnishes, etc. no longer made contribute something extra (maybe "magical") to the sound?
@gambit I'm not a luthier but the one thing I'd say is the type of finish would make a noticeable difference. Say for example a guitar with a high gloss finish and the same model with an oil finish. Id expect the latter to sound more open and "worn in" vs the high gloss that would take a considerable amount of playing to achieve a similar openness. I've always been a sucker for non-gloss finishes for that reason, but the difference probably becomes less noticeable when you're on the high end of the guitar spectrum.
Say for example a guitar with a high gloss finish and the same model with an oil finish.
I can offer something from a personal experience here too besides that fretboard replacement. This winter I decided to refinish my guitar (for a few different reasons, having a fresh look being just one of them). It used to have some sort of lacquer, I'm not familiar with the different types. I stripped it by hand, left it natural (it was stained previously) and finished with Tru-Oil. A friend who heard my guitar in many different situations said it was amazing how much louder it was when I brought it to the jam (where we usually sit next to each other) after the job was done. It was not a quiet guitar to begin with. I'd add that it just opened, it can freely resonate and breath. My bandmates said pretty much the same.