How do I set up an archtop for gyspsy jazz?

Willie · March 2021

In the following video you can hear 8 bars with my Framus Studio 1960 (Daddario 11 gipsy jazz, John Pearse PH 1 horn pick) and 8 bars with my Framus Stella or Capri 1963 (Martin 12 bronze round, same pick):

https://youtu.be/HlptKPyToro

Those old Framus archtops are my workhorse and my workpony for school. They are loud and robust, I love to play them in the schoolyard when I'm singing with my children or playing dance tunes for them. The Hobby sounds more bluesy, the Stella more folky when not played "gipsy". I sometimes even use them for little classical pieces (by the way, this is the style the Selmac was designed for, isn't it?)

The discussion about "which gear to sound gipsy" to me seems to be eternally necessary and completely superfluous at the same time. It is obviuos that there are different guitars needed for different musical styles, and it is also obvious that some gipsy masters sound perfect on guitars you would never think of when playing manouche music. As mentioned further up in this and other discussions, it is the player and his approach to the guitar that makes the gipsy sound (or any other sound). A Busato etc. certainly might help, but even manouche guitars should be played the "correct" gipsy way(s).

So enjoy your Framus!

Willie · March 2021

... and again I can't resist posting a picture by the young artist who had drawn the fantastic manouche guitar (https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/17627/what-pick/p6), this time he portrayed the big Framus (he is 6 years old now):

Bones · March 2021

Most archtops need heavier strings to drive the top but can't say about yours since I've never seen one of those. That said you may have to try different strings to see what you like. A lot of the tone is in the players technique though so I'd go for whatever strings make the guitar loud and clean and then focus on your technique and phrasing.

Willie · March 2021

The heaviest gauge I used for the big Framus with the cutaway was 13 flatwound, with these strings it began to sound like an an archtop. Because the whole box is made of plywood, I tried to tickle out it's hidden gipsy with Daddario gipsyjazz 11, but this sounded too bright for my ears. The Martin bronze 12 are comfortable, with a mellower sounding pick as I used in the video the guitar still has a "jazzy" flair. The "parlour" Framus received the Daddarios, this works well for most opportunities, again I use different picks.

Willie · March 2021

The smaller Framus, the second in the video, for me does not really match the manouche style. But that could be because of my insufficiently trained right hand.

Russell Letson · March 2021

To my ears, Willie's short video demonstrates how much "gypsy" sound can be found in non-Selmer-style instruments. The guitars need to be set up to produce their best voices, but the rest is in the hands of the player. For lead, the style demands reasonable sustain, a sweetness in the trebles, and light enough strings to allow for vibrato (and bends). For rhythm, it needs a nice tchunk, which is more a matter of technique than guitar construction--though the guitar's voice does need a solid bottom.

I've heard respectable gypsy jazz played on flat-tops and archtops, and while the timbres might sound a bit off, it's the players' technique (especially in the rhythm department) that makes the biggest difference.

When I started playing swing 25 years ago, my main guitar was designed for fingerstyle and I didn't use a pick--I played with the backs of my nails in a semi-rasgueado manner--and I still (eventually) managed to produce a respectable swing-rhythm sound. Getting that sound was a lot easier when I found an old Epiphone archtop and figured out how to operate a flatpick--the Epi did a lot of the work. But, interestingly enough, what didn't change much was my left-hand technique. (I would add as a sidenote that one of my teachers for swing was Mike Dowling, whose preferred instrument was and remains a National El Trovador resophonic with light strings. It's in the hands, not the guitar. And I've played a lot of swing on my National M-1 tricone.)

pdg · March 2021

Lately, Bireli plays a flattop and a nylon-string, and Adrian Moignard a nylon-string, all gypsy-jazz style.

BillDaCostaWilliams · March 2021

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/105652#Comment_105652

The first one does sound convincing to me though.

ChrisMartin · March 2021

Totally agree with what Willie and Russell said.

Most of whatever you are playing comes from the hands. I went through all of the "I have to have the right guitar to play this" stuff years ago and found back in the '70s that strangely a Telecaster did not make me Albert Lee and a Gibson semi did not make me BB King either. So no surprises later when I found my Di Mauros and Castelluccias did not turn me into Django. But, those years of trying, learning from my heroes and finding different sounds all made me whatever it is I am today.

(probably a bit of a mess really....)

But, don't let my example put you off the path to finding your musical identity. As for guitars, (and I have to apologise to Michael who hosts this forum) there is so much BS talked about the relative merits of certain types, styles, brands etc in all sectors of the guitar world and the Gypsy Jazz players are just as susceptible. Sure those who have paid out huge sums for their preferred Selmer/Busato/Favino etc have to keep the myth going to justify their investment - whether to the wife, or just to themselves, while many of these upmarket 'collectors' do not, or can not, do them justice musically. An extreme example here must be Joe Bonamassa, he has the greatest collection of vintage Les Pauls yet no matter how many he has they can't help turn him into anything better than a totally unoriginal but competent copyist bar band blues rock cliche. I have yet to hear him play one original lick yet he keeps on buying more Les Pauls.

Collecting guitars is fun, and at the same time an affliction for many, but I always at least own up and say yes, I do have more money than talent.

The fact remains that the best players will sound great on anything they pick up. And yes of course we all know Stochelo, Bireli, Angelo and the rest all have some nice guitars but then some may be as a result of an endorsement deal - how many brands has Angelo Debarre put his name to? - and some may just be tools of the trade, the cost of which is only a fraction of their professional earning power.

So, a cheaper Asian GJ guitar? Ok, if you want, but hardly necessary. Many on here will disagree and some have very fixed views about how you can ONLY play Django style on a Selmer copy, and then they get very specific about strings and picks too. In truth I suspect the major part of the attraction here is 'the look', so buying a Gitane/Cigano/Altamira etc is as much about convincing oneself that one is on the right path because it looks right as it is about getting an authentic tone. There is certainly no need for a learner to get bogged down in the irrelevant details for now, you can fine tune your gear later if and when you get to the point where you can hear a difference in your playing.

Framus? While I have never had one, I have had many Hofners and still have a Hoyer and they are similarly made, presumably with similar qualities and faults, so yes, I would start with some Martin 80/20 bronze strings which do bring out a good sound on these without being too heavy and go from there. There will be some flexibility in tones available by trying different picking styles and positions and you will find with practice the 'sweet spot' you need depending on what you think you want to hear.

Good luck whatever you play.