Smooth vs. harsh gypsy picking

opus20000

Players like Stochelo, Mozes Rosenberg, Angelo Debarre have a very smooth sound vs. players like Moreno Winterstein, Forbach players Favino Lorier, Tico Weiss have a very harsh-bright sound.

All of those seem to have the same hand position, maybe use the same type of pics, but why such a difference in the tone? And all aways sound the same respectively, Mozes never sounds harsh-bright and Moreno never smooth.

Scoredog

This is a great question and I have not seen it covered here before. I may not be correct but I presume most of it is how hard one attacks the strings and angle of the pick...pick choice also plays into it some degree. I'll be curious what others say.

paulmcevoy75

I kinda think they sound like what they want to sound like or what they think they should sound like? They probably sound like some combination of the people they admire the most filtered through their own personality.

If you hand any guitar to anyone they are going to sound more like themselves then they will to anyone playing the same instrument. Some instruments and setups will make it easier for particular players to get the sound they want but a smooth player is going to sound smooth on a rough instrument and vice versa.

JasonS

Maybe harsh isn't the best word to use here since it has some negative connotations. When I listen to Moreno I notice how incredibly precise his rhythm is and it sounds like he's playing closer to the bridge with either a very thick or rigid pick. It sounds like most of his fast lines are constructed to naturally land on downstrokes when changing strings.

scot

I agree with Craig, it's a real good question. I don't know the answer but it certainly does seem to have some regional roots - or it did at one time. I can't think of many guitarists outside Benelux who get the kind of smooth and liquid tone that characterizes Stochelo, Fapy, and other Dutch guitarists. Maybe some of the people here who've played with them can offer some insight.

pdg

The Dutch players typically use Galli silk & steel strings, which probably contributes a lot to the difference.

Chiefbigeasy

Christiaan has commented that Stochelo plays with a pretty light touch no matter what the situation. I find that comment interesting because it seems to me that my picking style changes according to the situation.

If I’m in the jam with a number of other instruments and all playing acoustically, I often find myself picking harder in order to achieve more volume. That really messes with my technique. If I’m doing a show where I’m amplified, I have more leeway to pick more softly and lightly because a microphone or pickup is going to do the work of volume for me.

I don’t think this is a good idea and I would prefer to have a more consistent style, but I don’t think it’s unusual to have to adjust one’s technique for the situation.

voutoreenie

Maybe I'm an outlier on this but regarding the Dutch players, Stochelo has to my ears always had a much lighter touch compared to Mozes or Paulus...in fact, I think both of the latter project more in general from their technique, with Mozes perhaps sounding a bit more angular/direct and Paulus more rounded/smooth. Young/prime Jimmy was probably the one who kinda combined all of the different tones and projections from the Dutch scene, at least again to my ears.

I feel like Bireli influenced the "French" sound as much as anyone, perhaps even more so than the DeBarre...although both of their influences are so ubiquitous, same with Adrian as a more modern master. Giniaux is almost his own entire thing, same with Antoine for that matter...so many amazing French players tho, it's hard to even know where to start and end lol. And then you have Gonzalo, who has his own sound much as anyone...and if his tone is a yin, the yang might be Joscho.

Mondoslug

Well...such a cool vid.

Do we think this is one sitting...or different days?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwcJYsiWpK0

Mondoslug

voutoreenie

@Mondoslug my recollection is the 607 vids were recorded in separate sessions...but considering the rhythm section is wearing the same clothes, now I'm really doubting myself lol