Recommended lessons for improving

geese_com

Another vote here for the Van Hemert System of books, Discord, videos along with @paulmcevoy75 and @DoubleWhisky Well worth the price of admission.

The books are well laid out and explained. The videos are well produced as well. There are backing tracks provided and Guitar Pro 8 files. The livestream videos for book owners are filled with lots of great tips and information.

Lots of knowledgeable people on the Discord who are all there to learn and improve as well so it gives you that sense of community and competition (if you are into that kind of thing). CvH is also active on the Discord and will give you very direct feedback and criticism so that you can improve.

One of the biggest things from following CvH's system is that it gives you an actual way to practice everything to best learn, recall, and make things stick. This no doubt takes countless hours but the system makes those hours suck less and tries to make them as efficient as possible.

I can tell I have made lots of improvements using CvH's system (compared to DoubleWhiskey and others on the Discord I am still a beginner) but I am still not satisfied with my level, so hopefully if I can keep sticking to it and that it will pay off.

Buco

@djazzy thanks for the vote of confidence, lol

My friends, you are doing the work, not the teachers. And rarely that's the emphasis of these topics. Majority of anyone's progress depends on the amount of sustained effort you put in. Time is king, to paraphrase the saying in business "cash is king". I suppose the hypothetical question is how much can one improve, given the same time input, with a good instructor vs on your own? I think a lot of that depends more on a person than the instructor.

Another thing to ask yourself is how much can be improved of what you already know? How's the execution, the tone, timing, how is the pocket when you play, are you making variations on whatever is already a part of your vocabulary...etc. Is it pro level solid? This is what I constantly ask myself first before starting anything else. And, I suppose this also depends on person's goals. Maybe someone's goal isn't to sound on a pro level. Rather, it's to keep the interest going and curiosity satisfied. That's ok too, we can have different approaches and outcomes in mind.

The concert came up recently that Henry Acker was a part of. He played something over Django's Tiger that caught my ear. It sounded amazing. I had to slow down the video to 1/4 tempo to hear what's going on. Once I figured it out, oh man, it's so simple. But listening to him it sounded incredible and amazing. The execution.

However, if CVH or Yakov or anyone else makes you wanna sit down and practice, keeps you inspired and moving forward, and you can comfortably afford it, then great, keep going. But it's you that's making the progress happening.

paulmcevoy75

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/123468#Comment_123468

Nah. I mean I've been practicing music for 40 years. I have tried all sorts of things, worked with different ideas, teachers, etc. I never got passed mediocre. None of this stuff comes easily to me and I get stuck constantly.

I obviously am putting the time in but I was putting the time in before and not getting anywhere. Sometimes getting worse. So having the framework CVH has provided has made a huge difference.

It's like the triplet thing I mentioned above. First of all before I started working with CVH my picking and swing was terrible and non existent respectfully. But also get stuck in little problems like picking triplets and being able to ask someone who has analyzed stuff in great detail saved me years of time. Or maybe something I wouldn't have figured out ever.

pdg

Since GJ is a take on "regular" jazz, for those people branching out from non-jazz genres, like rock or bluegrass, I think "Jazz Guitar Online" could be helpful. They break down the structure of actual songs, show the patterns, and discuss what scales and modes relate to the chords in the song, among other things.

We should remember that Django was just trying to play jazz.

Buco

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/123469#Comment_123469

Ok, haha, it's working for you and that's good.

The stuff that I was talking about isn't something I came up with. Or maybe some of it I did but the thing is as I'm progressing on this journey, I'm finding validation for that line of thinking all the time. They come from some of the most respected people in this genre, then classical etc... I could cite names and instances but it's not that important.

When it comes down to it, at this point this stuff isn't a rocket science (at least not at this point, it was when I started frequenting this forum). And I feel the same for everyone in this discussion, I believe everyone understands what improvising is about and ways to get better. What I think, in general , people don't do enough to set clear goals, make a plan and set about meeting those goal while constantly self-evaluating. This last one may be the most important ingredient in getting where you want to go.

voutoreenie

Everyone commenting on the CVH system really speaks to how effective his high quality method is and even though I don't use it myself, I've picked up quite a few licks and phrases from his free videos over the years, especially when I was first switching over to rest stroke technique - although I do find CVH a bit too rigid on what he considers to be "proper" GJ technique building, he's absolutely fantastic at breaking down both songs and the improvisations within them while presenting/teaching in a very clear, concise and easy to follow fashion.

For those who use his method, is it also fair to say he keeps you practicing more than you would be otherwise? Because that's such a huge part of this imo, practicing both consistently and effectively.

Personally, I think you need to devote 3-4 hours per week of practicing split into 30-45 minute daily increments to really get better. Especially for such a demanding style such as GJ that relies on retention and exacting precision of technique. And as we become older (well, at least as I get older lmao), consistent practicing has become less important for the latter (technique) than the former (retention). But either way, if you want to actually get good you need to put in the time and that's always been the primary factor that prevents or turns people away from maximizing their potential as an instrumentalist.

Anyway, another fun and informative thread, have really enjoyed reading through everyone's perspectives on learning and what's worked best for them on an individual level.

Buco

The mention in this thread of the Duved's Soundslice lesson got me to get back to it. I worked on it for a while but I'm not sure if anything from it really stuck (and I don't want to kill the discussion here). The first concept in the lesson is playing a minor iv over V (but this iv sound can really seep into the I chord too) in the ii V I progression.

I learned what Duved is playing but the way he navigates the fretboard isn't something I do so I made a few variations on the theme using fingerings that fall more naturally for me.

The real color notes are m3 in the m6 arp which becomes the b9 over the domV chord. Also the 5th of the m6 arp which becomes 11th in the domV chord. Then if this sound sort of seeps over into the root, you get the #5 sound.

Then I was playing these over Django's Castle when it shifts to the G; A-7 D7 G. Very pretty.

These will become a part of the Anki library I've been using to expand my musical vocabulary. Which made my own practice both easier and more fun.

Buco

Oh, @paulmcevoy75 I just saw addendums to your post (I sometimes do that too because I don't want to flood the board with my postings more than I already do but this way people will miss what you added and it's really cool)

there's set exercises for each of the chapters. The set exercises are all the licks from each chapter. You have to play them all in a row and then play them in 12 keys. It takes approx 14 minutes for each exercise. You record the exercise and submit to CVH. He reviews it, critiques it and either passes you or tells you how to do it up to snuff.

This is HARD. Very very hard. For me, initially, it was massively challenging. But that's because I had such a weak skill set in the past. The first few chapters would take me like 1.5 months each. Now if I were doing another book, I would be a lot faster, but it's still hard.

This is exactly what woodshedding is. Sustained, focused and concentrated practice. You sure you were doing this in the past?

Also you can see how CVH is evolving himself. There are his earlier videos where he's advocating against practicing in all 12 keys. He used to say how he doesn't see the point of doing that. I also don't take stuff through all 12 keys. First and biggest reason is it's boring, dry practice. I look for songs that are commonly played practice over those. That's what Christian used to say too, maybe I still need to evolve to get to that point.

paulmcevoy75

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/123482#Comment_123482

(long winded reply)

Regarding does the CVH method inspire you to practice more, 100%. First of all CVH is a monster practicer. I never know exactly what he means by this but he claims to practice 6-8 hours a day, every day. The guy is a very, very knowledgeable musician in like 6 different genres (off the top of my head, classical violin, jazz violin, classical and jazz arranging, Tango Bandoneon, I think he has a conservatory degree in bass, something and something else). So I don't really doubt that he puts in a lot of hours. The other day he was talking about arranging a Stravinsky piece for an ensemble including gypsy guitar and he knows the piece on a super deep level.

So he's very realistic about how much practice time to put in. One thing that I think many of us really respect is him being just very blunt about how long it takes to get to be really good, not, great. Like 5-6 years of heavy practicing. Which I think is reflective of maybe someone we might know who started at age 12 and was a monster player at 17 but also clearly practiced constantly.

For me, 3-4 hours a week is not cutting it, even slightly. I work 2 12 hour shifts a week...I practice 1 hour on those days and I try to do 3 hours on my off days (at least), so my weekly goal is 17 but sometimes I miss. I'm blessed in certain ways to be able to do that (no kids, easy job that pays my bills, limited expenses sorta) although it also is probably a stupid thing to do in my 50s (retirement is not looking good).

Anyway, I appreciate the advantages of very focused practice over shorter intervals but I also really like to dig in on stuff over 30 minutes or an hour. I've been playing Donna Lee and trying to swing every single note and every weird pick stroke and it is really really difficult (for me, anyway) and I spend hours on it but I think ultimately it will pay off in teaching my hand to want to swing.

I think it's hard to replicate two really great scenarios for learning: being in junior high school and getting obsessed with music and practicing 8 hours a day because your basic needs are met by your parents or being a professional in times when there were plentiful gigs and you could play constantly with people every day. Those are other ways you can pack in the hours, but they aren't really an option for a lot of us.

Anyway, long story short, the CVH set exercises that come with the books (other than Book I) are really, really challenging. They are doable but they take a lot of focus and practice. They are sort of a binary. You can either do them or you can't (pass/fail). If you can't do it, you have to keep practicing. And when you get close to being able to record one, it takes 12 minutes to record the whole thing, so you have to decide whether you can really nail it because if you fail, you kind of waste a lot of time recording. It's hard to explain until you do it, but for me it was the most challenging thing I've done musically maybe forever. I feel like it burned in some musical goodness into my brain that I'm still making use of.

I still can't play very well, in my opinion, but I do see a path going forward.

Sorry for the ramble.

Oh with regards to playing in 12 keys, I think for burning in vocabulary in the way that the set exercises work, it's really helpful. It abstracts the lick from the letter name of the key and makes you think more about functions of notes and where they sit in relation to the key and chords you're playing. For the licks I learned from the set exercises, they are burned in my mind from playing them in 12 keys. It doesn't mean I can access them easily because playing them in tunes is a different thing but I'm glad that I worked them over.

Also CVH is not only dealing with Gypsy Jazz but regular jazz jazz as well and in that situation I think playing licks in 12 keys is probably more applicable.

While I'm at it, 1 thing I've been doing for about a year is having a youtube channel where I post videos of my practice. I don't advertise it in any way, I think I have 15 subscribers. There's a lot of not-great playing on it. I don't really care, it's not for show, it's like a portfolio for me to look back on and see progress, or lack thereof. Mostly just to remind myself that I'm working on things and what I was working on in the past. It also is sort of a way for me to "perform" in that anyone that wants to can look at it (I dunno why they would, but it's there). I recommend it (you can make a 2nd youtube channel and switch between them).

This is me playing Donna Lee with Genius Drum Tracks and trying to swing every note. I'm using CVH's idea of skipping the triplets which is helping me lock in the swing, particularly at faster tempos. I can hear places I'm missing the swing but I know that it's progress for me so it's cool. Not sharing because it's good or bad, just an example of what I'm doing with the youtube thing.

One thing I've noticed my whole life is that I'm extremely critical of myself in the moment, but when I listen back at an interval, I am much kinder to myself and my playing. In writing this, I'm listening to these recordings for the first time maybe since I made them. and they definitely sound better to me than they did when I recorded them. Usually I'm like "well that sucked" in my brain, but the time makes it like I'm listening to someone else and it sounds pretty ok.

I'd like to say that my skills or lack thereof aren't a reflection on CVH's teaching, I'm learning a lot whether it shows now or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKmdpcje5CU

Sorry for the ramble....

flaco

Regarding the DC Music School lessons. I noticed that one of the Paulus Schafer courses is free. It would be a good way to see what they are like. https://www.dc-musicschool.com/store/in-the-style-of-paulus-schafer/