Bireli model FIBONACCI guitar

paulmcevoy75

That makes sense although tbh somehow my brain doesn't always click with watching someone else's fret markers. It should, but I often find it just as confusing.

djazzy

gotta put it out there. at some point in the course of one's development, I think, it helps not to focus on either fret markers or fingerboard dots because they essentially serve as crutches. I've noticed when I'm playing well (which isn't often) I'm visually focused someplace other than on the guitar. Like someplace in space, in between somewhere. In other words, all those markings just seem to be in the way. Or its probably just the case that I just have to occasionally quickly glance down to the fret map to get reoriented only to have to resume looking away. I certainly prefer having some map than not. But they're still a crutch. And all this is especially true when something has to be transposed. I've had to play Exactly Like You in *three* different keys! Final note: old Classical guitars typically don't have any side or fingerboard dots...

Buco

For example, if I'm in the class at Django in June and instructor is showing us something, I don't look at the position, I usually search for the sound on my guitar. Of course I see roughly where the hand is but then I just go by instinct and listen if my sound matched with what's shown.

littlemark

All true. But consider other instruments. There is only one (ish) place to play each note. On woodwinds you have your fingers in the same place too start. On a brass instrument you have only three (4) valves. Or a slide.

And the geography is relatively large on a guitar. The shifts are bigger. Classical guitars have the 12th indicated with the body attachment. And Classical repetoire doesn't go as far up the neck as more contemporary music.

Now consider the non fretted string instruments. No makers (usually). One of my basses actually has markers. But they have other markers. The heel of the bass neck is attached at the 7th "fret". And the use of harmonics and open strings is very common as anchor points to reposition your hands.

I also remember practising single string octave leaps on the bass. The geography of the bass is much bigger than the guitar, but having fewer strings makes note placement less of a multiple choice question compared to the guitar.

djazzy

@buco, thats impressive. I never do that. I guess I rely on dots more than I think.

Buco

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/125182#Comment_125182

Meh, but thanks. I think I do have a good ear but I feel people are somehow avoiding to rely on their ears. I see that all the time at DiJ. Same situation I described before but majority of the room is asking for the position on the neck. All solid players. I'm thinking there's no way you can't figure it out by ear because a lot are really advanced players. It's kinda odd. What is it, afraid to try, not enough self-confidence?

littlemark

Or time constraints. If you're slow it's hard to catch up.

billyshakes

https://djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/125186#Comment_125186

I suppose there are parallels to this in language learning. None of us ever grew up learning the language by deconstructing a sentence and parsing its grammar. Many don't know a gerund from an aorist tense or even a verb tense from a verb mood. But we use them on a daily basis, many times with unerring accuracy, because we learned by hearing them as children. For later-in-life learners, grammar becomes a shortcut to get you to your goal quicker. It gives you some basic rules which you can remember and apply. However, for an intermediate learner, they might focus on or worry over whether the grammar is truly correct because they are "smart" enough to know the difference between what is/isn't correct but lack the confidence to just use it and speak rather than consider the specific rule in their head before speaking. It becomes robotic and precise, but not natural. With time and repeated practice, that can go away.

So observing the visual cues on the other person's fretboard help you get there faster, though they might also force you to just not trust your ear because you feel the "need" to know that exact position. I think both visual and auditory learning are useful and probably occur at the same time, albeit with different "speeds" of skill acquisition.