Holding the plectrum

MichaelHorowitz

djangology wrote:

I had a guitar teacher tell me that my soloing wouldn't sound as sloppy if I held the pick tight and made the smallest picking strokes that I could.

would you say that is good advice, in terms of gypsy jazz, or is the person that gave me that advice "high"?

For certain effects and for volume you sometimes need grip the pick more tightly. But only very briefly...once you're done with the phrase you should totally relax. And in general, you want too keep it loose.

Gypsy Picking uses bigger motions....after you get really good at it you can use more subtle strokes as well, but I'd shy away from that at first. It's better to get the volume, tone, accuracy, and confidence of the big strokes first. Once you get to the point that you're playing the sort of Gypsy Bebop you hear on Stochelo Ready n Able CD, then you can work in the smaller motions. But for trad. Gypsy, I'd keep 'em big.

djangology

thanks Michael. its nice to get an affirmation of what I thought was the right answer. thanks. :-)

TenorClef

Well having read this thread with interest, I've order Michael's book 'Gypsy Picking' and the technique of holding the pick with the info provided here has been really useful. Today i played at a band stand in my local town, it was threatening rain so the Park ranger refused to supply electrical power. This meant our pianist was unable to play leaving a line up of soprano sax, double bass and myself on guitar all playing acoustically. I discovered that using the pick the way described in this thread really brought out a lot of extra volume. I occasionally found it clumsy for solos but fine for chords, i think this is because the approach is new and i have to adapt to it. However this is a great thread and has been very useful to me!

cantzon

I hold the pick the way you do. (Beween the pads of the fingers) It causes no tension whatsoever. The only disadvantage is that palm muting becomes difficult.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with rock guitarist Paul Gilbert but he used to hold the pick between the pads and then switched mid career to the way the other people on this forum are suggesting. I discussed this with him at a clinic where he noticed the way I was picking. I asked him if I should change and he asked me how important palm muting is to my style.

I have actually developed a technique where I drop my pinky down to palm mute while using the aforementioned technique. George Benson also holds the pick like we do.

The fact is there is more than one way to do things. The main key is to play slowly and build up speed. I also suggest using a metronome. Practice in two minute focused bursts with breaks in between.

Good luck.

cantzon

Here's a picture.

Don't let anyone tell you it doesn't work. I can play extremely fast and loud with precision. People holding the pick the other way often can too. So at least two different ways work. How do you hold a pencil? There are two ways to hold a pencil. I've noticed that most of my students hold their picks the same way they hold their pencils. I do too.

MichaelHorowitz

Hi,

Looks like you've got the George Benson pick grip. Obviously that works great for electric bebop stuff. However, you might find it harder to achieve the projection and tone which is associated with the Gypsy style when using that grip. Anything is possible, but there isn't much of a precedence in this style for using that sort of grip. I've never seen a Gypsy do it....but Robin Nolan (a non-Gypsy player) uses a similar grip with good results. But he has a very personal, idiosyncratic approach to the music. If you want to play in the traditional Django style then this grip might be a problem.

If you decide to stick with it let us know how it works. Maybe post a video demonstration.

Thanks!

-Michael

cantzon

I'm not having much difficulty thus far with the shown grip. I have switched to considerably heftier picks and I'm playing a bit harder than I used to.

I'm certainly not advocating this picking style for others but , as you may know, after playing for twenty years for a minimum of four hours a day with a metronome it would be insane to alter things at this stage.

I love the Gypsy Jazz guys and am studying it right now. But I have a very broad range of things I do. I have a nice classical from Argentina and as you can see from the photo I still play with my nails as well.

When I've fully adjusted to the new pick I'll post a video.

By the way, I'm playing on a Santa Cruz acoustic. I need to get a Gypsy style guitar. My budget will be around $3000 or so. Any suggestions?

MichaelHorowitz

[quote="cantzon"]

I'm certainly not advocating this picking style for others but , as you may know, after playing for twenty years for a minimum of four hours a day with a metronome it would be insane to alter things at this stage.[/quote]

Yes...it's tough to change! But is totally worth it if you want the "Gypsy" sound.

[quote]I love the Gypsy Jazz guys and am studying it right now. But I have a very broad range of things I do. I have a nice classical from Argentina and as you can see from the photo I still play with my nails as well.[/quote]

If you're doing lot's of different stuff, a hybrid technique may be a better solution. But you'll most likely compromise some tone and projection when playing Gypsy style


[quote]By the way, I'm playing on a Santa Cruz acoustic. I need to get a Gypsy style guitar. My budget will be around $3000 or so. Any suggestions?[/quote]

The absolute best buy in that price range is Dell Arte Hommage. Sounds and plays like $6000 European guitar for less then $3K. See:

DELL'ARTE
OVAL HOLE HOMMAGE GUITAR WITH BIGTONE PICKUP AND CASE







DELL'ARTE
D-HOLE HOMMAGE GUITAR WITH CASE

cantzon

I don't think the tone is any different. I can play just as hard as with the other grip. The only difference is that I hit the pick at the exact opposite angle. You may think I can't be playing as hard because when you try to hold the pick like me it feels awkward. I can assure you that it feels just as awkward to me to hold it the other way.

Thanks for all of the responses and for the suggestions on guitars.

MichaelHorowitz

It's not so much about playing hard. It's about angle of attack and the complete difference in tone you get with a rest stroke. A freestroke (with any pick grip) sounds very different then a rest stroke. There's no way around that...freestrokes will always sound different. There's nothing wrong with that...but the freestroke tone is not the accepted ideal for Gypsy guitar. It's sort of like the difference in Flamenco technique (almost all rest strokes) and classical (a lot more freestrokes.)

Also, the phrasing is very distinct with rest strokes...mostly because you're playing a lot more downstrokes. It really starts to sound like Django when you get the rest stroke phrasing happening.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you have to change anything. But there are distinct sonic differences between these different techniques and that should be acknowledged.

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