bouncing

nym

Hi!

I read earlier messages and found an explanation of technique called bouncing. What does bouncing mean? Does it mean that pick is quickly drawn away from string where it is resting after rest-stroke? (It is hard to imagine that pick is physically bouncing fr. the string,)
I have also one difficult with rest-strokes: sometimes pick is sliding from the string it rests ( I use Wegen pick). Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks in advance!

MichaelHorowitz

Some people describe the motion of consecutive downstrokes (w/rest-strokes) as bouncing. Also sometimes called a "trampoline effect."

I never thought of it that way. But I sort of see what people are saying. If your wrist is really loose when you're playing many downstrokes in a row it sort of has a certain "bounce" to it. Sorry I can't be more specific. You'll have to consult one of the experts on bounce theory for a better description.

I can't figure out why your pick would slide. Make sure you're picking at a 45 degree angle. Also, really dig in on those rest strokes.

I hope that helps,

Michael

dennis

i personally think it becomes clear when you watch someone (and someone who plays it strictly by the book) do it... ie stochelo or fapy... (the video section of this site has a bunch)

django too, but the clips of him playing solo are rather short....

joef

re "the bounce", here's an old post from Dan's "Gypsyjazzguitartechniqueandequipment" group 

It's hard to describe the right hand "bounce" so I've been looking again at what happens. This applies to rhythm playing as well of course - in fact the motion is more exaggerated for rhythm playing and just reduced for picking.

It all hinges around the wrist. If the picking hand is hanging in a relaxed way off the wrist, then it is the up and down motion of the wrist that "swings" the hand up and down.

Imagine a string attached to the wrist holding it up, with the hand hanging relaxed.. Bob that wrist up and down and the hand will describe an arc. (Don't hold the pick too firmly - it will lock the wrist) Notice that what happens is that the wrist starts to lift back up ( for the next stroke) while the hand can still be descending to finish its arc.

Now you see why the rest-stroke is so important. It's what defines where the pick stops. On the top E-string its OK - the hand just swings on as
there are no other strings to worry about.
On the other strings it is the rest string which controls (ie stops ) the picks downward motion. The wrist is already on its way back up.

As I said before, the motion of the wrist is quite small for picking compared with rhythm playing. Speed it up and you get your tremolo ("shaking out a match").

For rhythm playing, how much the wrist lifts or descends, and how far the hand is allowed to sweep is what helps define the swing or accents. The bounce is in the up and down movement of the wrist which could be, for example, greater on beats 2 and 4.
A larger upward lift of the wrist also brings a stronger swing of the hand, and on the upward movement this is where you can put in that extra upstroke in the rhythm. It's not an additional motion - more a choice as to whether the upwardly moving plectrum is allowed to hit the strings or not.

regards
Joe

nym

Thanks for your answers!

Description of technique is very detailed, but there is still something I don't quite understand. What does it mean that wrist is moving up and down? Are you supposed to lift your wrist and hand from your elbow?
I also don't understand how it is possible that movement comes from the wrist (as it is said in the G.P. book) if picking motion is like shaking a match. If I shake a match my elbow initiates the movement by rotaing or moving up and down. If you have curled wrist - like I think you should have - you simply cannot move your wrist even it was totally loose. (If you hang your hand relaxed off the wrist and take a firm grip of your elbow with other hand, you cant move your picking hand at all.
If your wrist is flat (like most fast alternate-pickers play) then you can initiate picking movement from the wrist. Wrist functions then like a pivoting point and elbow doesn't move at all.

I am sorry to ask so much questions but I want to be sure that I dont't practice wrong movements.

Thanks in advance.

joef

>What does it mean that wrist is moving up and >down? Are you supposed to lift your wrist and >hand from your elbow?

The movement of the hand is created by up and down movement of the wrist. The elbow does not need to move unless you want to add extra weight to a huge accent :-)

As Michael said before, the wrist is like a crane that moves the hand ( and pick ) to the correct height.

If your hand is in the correct position and hanging loose off the wrist ( as in pictures in GP book ) , then moving the wrist up and down by pivoting the forearm from the elbow, will cause the wrist to swing up and down across the strings. Relaxation of the wrist and hand is important. As in GP page 12 " you want your hand to be as relaxed as possible, to the point where you are nearly dropping the pick".

regards
Joe

nym

Thanks again!

There is still something I must be missing. If there is no motion in arm how can you generate picking movement (unless you keep your wrist parallel to the strings - which causes that the pick is not moving in an arc)?

Thanks in adv.

joef

>>If there is no motion in arm how can you generate picking movement?

There is motion of the arm. The forearm moves up and down pivoting from the elbow. The relaxed hand swings on the end. This is much more for fast rhythm work and tremolo strums, but applies in a much reduced amount to the "bouncing " of the hand and arm in say, descending ( in pitch) arpeggio down-strokes.
It is difficult to put in words.:( Best to watch other players live or videos/DVDs as suggested in a previous post. Best of all try to get some lessons from a player in this style.

best regards
Joe