How loud are the virtuosos?

Frank Wekenmann

I've been wondering for a long time whether the super virtuosos like Angelo, Stochelo or Birelli could play their licks at the proverbial "campfire" and still be heard? Would they play fewer notes in that situation? Did they adapt their picking style to the fact that they are always amplified in some way? I know that with the right technique a loud sound can be achieved without tensing up, yet there must be limits??

MichaelHorowitz

Hi Frank,

Good question. Every Gypsy player I've met can play phenomenally loud on an acoustic. Stochelo, Paulus Schaefer (really loud!), Angelo, etc. However, you're right about amplification. Much of the speed you hear in today's players in due to the fact they can now rely more amplification to achieve the necessary volume. You ultimately can achieve more speed when you don't have to hammer each note. However, I wouldn't take this as an excuse to play lightly all the time. Even when playing amplified, most Gypsies are still picking harder then your average archtop electric player would. And additionally, I've found that being able to get good tone and volume acoustically ultimately translates into a better sound when playing amplified. So ultimately, you need to be able to do both: play loud acoustically, and play faster and lighter when amplified.

Also, in volume challenged situations, most Gypsy players will play musical ideas that are LOUDER. Like chord solos, chromatic runs, repeating patterns etc. Subtle eighth note bebop lines don't cut it around the campfire.

Another thing to consider, is that even when playing acoustic, you shouldn't have to play that hard. Most Gypsy accompanists will play pretty softly so the lead can be heard. That's hard to do, play quite rhythm but still totally swing.

But again, I've found that it's good to know how to play loud when you need it. It really helps your technique to be able to that.

Good luck!

-Michael

a

there is a difference between playing hard and smooth. if you compare video/ audio of tchavalo and jimmy rosendberg, you can hear that tchavalo plays hard and jimmy plays smoothly. both are very loud, but jimmy's notes ring out, whereas tchavalo's are choked.

from my limited experience jamming on this stuff, there's a tendency to get caught up in trying to "win" by playing loud or fast. this can be very limiting. i've found that ratcheting up the tempo, or playing loud may seem exciting, but leaves me feeling somewhat empty and tense...there's not much room for the soul to come out when everyone is trying to cut each other.

besides, the stuff that sounds most fast and flashy happens when people hit those super fast licks over a ballad while maintaining grace (like stochelo's improv thing on django legacy, or django's chromatic runs in nuages).

a

practice is about finding a way to practice.

you can practice something really fast and sloppy until you get it right, or you can practice slowly and carefully until you get it right.

carol kaye says it's important not to "over-practice." i agree. if you get it right on the first shot, move on to something else.

Elliot

a wrote:

there is a difference between playing hard and smooth. if you compare video/ audio of tchavalo and jimmy rosendberg, you can hear that tchavalo plays hard and jimmy plays smoothly. both are very loud, but jimmy's notes ring out, whereas tchavalo's are choked.

Could this be an unfavorable comparison between Tchavolo and Jimmy Rosenberg??????

Bob Holo

I didn't take it that way - I interpreted it to be a style comparison. Tchavolo does play loud and damped - and I love it. Tchavolo is a "G String's worst nightmare" The man has a hand of thunder - he could probably pull a big loud tone out of a Stratocaster if the need ever arose.

BluesBop Harry

I saw Tchavolo play in Paris and he played so hard he broke four strings in an hour and a half. Man! He plays with such Heart.
Another very Loud and very fast player I saw was Chris Campion and some of the other gypsies at the Samoreau camp were incredibly loud too.

Ken Bloom

Apparent volume is not just playing harder. The tone you choose has a big effect. Playing closer to the bridge gives you more highs and all that treble translates into carrying power. There is a sweet spot where you are getting maximum carrying highs for the amount of force you're using. This sweet spot changes as you move up the fingerboard. If you are playing past the twelfth fret your right hand has to move closer to the bridge to get the same carrying power. Most players do this without thinking. Their hand just goes there. Next time you're watching a loud player pay attention to where he's striking the string. It makes a big difference.

stubla

I think one of the biggest errors most of us make is trying to play too loud-jam sessions are particularly dangerous in that respect.And in my experience not all the gypsies are that loud-Lollo is really quiet and needs amplification even in a jam context.The first and last rule of this music is relaxation.Relaxation should always take precedence over volume imo.We all know that feeling of playing too loud-suddenly gripping the pick too hard and 'locking' the thumb.Also we mistake strengh of tone with volume.
Stu