Great tone or Speed?

manoucheguitars

Interesting poll Michael! I would say that 90% of the guitarists who have purchased guitars from me want the action at between 3 & 3.5mm. Some even at 4+. And it's usually the older, more experienced players who request higher action. I'm playing at 3.5 now and find I get much better tone although it is a little harder to get the speed up!

gitpicker

On my guitar I have the action set just slightly below 4mm on the bass side (but higher than 3.5mm) and about 3mm on the treble. I consider this to be not that high as far as gypsy guitars go. I get a slightly better tone if it's cranked up a tad higher but for long hours of playing, my hands just get worn out.
Certain guitars have better sound with higher or lower action than others so each guitar is as particular as it's player. Finding the perfect combination of guitar and player seems like an un-ending quest at times.

As far as speed and tone? When listening to others I gravitate more towards tone but with my own playing I like to be able to play fast too. I personally have not yet reached a level where I feel I can say all I want to say without resorting to it. Someday I hope. One of my favorite non-gypsy style players is Jim Hall. He's a deep cat who can say so much with so little. With him, like Django, I never get tired of listening.
Playing super fast all the time or even most of the time is cool for a bit but at what cost? Expressiveness? Musicality? Originality? I agree with who said it earlier about speed being just one of the tools in the box.
Just my 2 cents.
Great topic,
Doug

Jack

Shawn wrote:

I cannot stand listening to much of the Rosenberg Trio's music or similar artists who don't usually incorporate other instruments into their music. This is why I pretty much only listen to Django when it comes to Gypsy Jazz...it's not an entire song of JUST guitar...he was always able to create the perfect blend of violin, guitar, bass, clarinet, sax, etc., etc. Each instrument was given its time and place.

Hi Shawn,

I think there's actually a lot out there that you'd like that incorporates other instruments...the WASO stuff, much of the German school (Schnuckenack Reinhardt, Hans'che Weiss, Titi Winterstein), Fapy's CDs, etc. Let me know if you'd like a sampler!

Best,
Jack.

kimmo

gitpicker wrote:

Certain guitars have better sound with higher or lower action than others so each guitar is as particular as it's player. Finding the perfect combination of guitar and player seems like an un-ending quest at times.

Exactly. My tone got better when I lovered my action. AND I got a more playable guitar. It seems the higher pressure from high action dampened the thin top. Although I didn't go to extremes here (still a few mms) I feel these factors (speed/tone) don't necessarily rule each others out. You have to have a good technique to produce a good tone and same goes for speed.

Bob Holo

Great thread, Michael!

Speed is a fine demonstration of technique - but it is no substitute for ideas and tone.

Yann

The more I play in the style, the more I realize that tone is important. As many say here, speed is just one tool in the case. I like to play fast but I don't want to sacrifice neither my tone, nor my volume (this one is also very important, especially when jamming with 5+ other guitarists playing the chords a bit too loud) so I keep my action pretty high and to hell if I'm slower!

Yann

MichaelHorowitz

kimmo wrote:

My tone got better when I lowered my action. AND I got a more playable guitar. It seems the higher pressure from high action dampened the thin top.

I had the same experience with my Dupont...it was much happier with low action and heavier strings. But my Favino just sounds dead unless the action is cranked up high and it has light strings.

Elliot

I've recently come to the conclusion based on the strength of Stareyes that Fapy Lavertin is the greatest player alive. He is beyond speed or tone - the thing cries for joy! That's how I want to play.

Wirralgitane

Definately tone, but only down to wanting to hear a melody with feel, A way someone sings a line in a song that brings shivers or emotion out in you is how i (hope) to try to play my lines on a guitar. But fast expression is still good for up tempo tunes (D.R Limehouse blues) or SKAT when singing.

As a young player i think its not only down to the height of the strings but the strength in your fingers to be able to excute phrases at high speeds with tone with high action. That's why Django could. His fingers were abnormally strong, like a blind man's sense of hearing is better, tuned in or more 'defined' than ours. Its just used more.

Great read/topic this

a

yeah, fapy's stardust makes everyone else sound childish.