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Has the Gypsy Jazz Revival Peaked?

2

Comments

  • ElliotElliot Madison, WisconsinNew
    Posts: 551
    Shawn wrote:
    But a surge in GJ is kinda like giving a really old man viagra - it'll get him up for a bit, but won't exactly attract new tail.

    Nice....."If your interest in GJ lasts more than 4 hours, please consult Djangobooks.com" :D
  • andoatagnandoatagn Northampton, MAProdigy
    Posts: 134
    A good topic, and one that is bound to be perennial. I'm rushing around today, but here are my 3 or 4 centimes:
    1) I agree with the others who have pointed out that, because this music is both culturally and technically "foreign" to American players, it will always be a niche market. That said, I live most of my life in various niche markets. I don't know who keeps Walmart and the big local grocery stores in business, but they'd crash and burn pretty quickly depending on me. Vive les niches!

    2) It's so easy (compared to days gone by) to put out a CD or a line of guitars nowadays that the market is bound to be flooded with certain kinds of merchandise. And I suppose it is. So the retail day-trippers will lose interest. No great loss, so long as there's enough demand to support the committed builders, players, and merchants.

    3) There will always be interest in this music because Django himself was so great. The temptation to look deeper and try one's hand at it will always be irresistible for some.

    4) We have, at present, almost 30 guitarists (not to mention other instrumentalists) signed up for Django Camp at this year's Django in June. Some are coming from as far away as CA, TX, CO, WA, AZ, OH, Alberta, Nova Scotia, Holland, and Israel...not to mention locals and folks from nearby states. And we have hardly begun to take registrations for weekenders. My point: the folks who want to play this music really want to play this music and their biggest frustration (after having to reprogram their right hands, of course) is that it's hard to connect with others to do it. IMHO, the more we nurture local, regional and national events that bring players together, the more everyone benefits: players, merchants, pompeurs. A guy (or gal) is only going to stay interested in playing along with online rhythm tracks for so long. At some point - as early and often as possible - this music has to be about connecting with others.

    Cheers to all,
    Andrew
  • CalebFSUCalebFSU Tallahassee, FLModerator Made in USA Dell Arte Hommage
    Posts: 557
    For me this has never been a popular music or really one I have seen grow other than it is now really easy for me to find "stuff". Where I live there are maybe 2or3 people that I have ever met that where at all interested in playing this music and from the time spent with these guys I know they weren't concerned with right hand technique or really much about the history, not to say that is wrong or bad just not the trend I see in the larger GJ online community or within myself. I am sometimes surprised when I talk to Bluegrass guys who know names like Stochelo or Bireli but unfortunately most of those guys ideas of the music is that it is really just some form of european bluegrass. I hope the trend keeps going up( I am looking at graduate school programs in areas where this music is concentrated so that I can get some proper lessons) I want to go places and see and play this music at least similairly to the way it is played abroad instead of playing minor swing in d and then having to play Blackberry blossom. Not that I have a problem with bluegrass I have recently tried to learn a little bit just to play music with people outside of school. I know the learning material is getting better (Dennis, Michael I swear I am going to buy the rhythm stuff when I get some spare bread). Hopefully because of it the learning curve will increase. Ok I am rambling on but those are my 2 cents.
    Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard.
  • tommasotommaso ROMA-ITALYNew
    Posts: 149
    This topic is extremely interesting for me. I agree with most of the things already told, but particularly with andoatagn, especially when he says :
    3) There will always be interest in this music because Django himself was so great. The temptation to look deeper and try one's hand at it will always be irresistible for some.

    But I think that GJ, although has popular roots (dance music,etc.) is rather a sophisticated music, that, nowadays, that its dance-function is not alive anymore, demands intention and deep passion in order to love it . All things that, in the fast life of today, people does not have. A similar thing happens with classic music, also if in this case the platea of lovers is bigger. Another proof of this is that the GJ listeners are 99% players themselves(at any level), people who want to enjoy expressing themselves playing GJ. The last observation : I think that the GJ situation is different in the various counties.
    (not sure to have been clear..) :?
    Bye,
    Tommaso
    Grazie Django!
  • SorefSoref Brookline, MA✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 94
    For what it's worth, I've found this music to be very accessible. Maybe not as a player (there's definitely a learning curve in that regard), but for the casual listener the music usually goes over very well. The turnout at my local gigs, is probably 90% people who don't know who Django is or even people who don't particularly like jazz. Still, they always walk away happy, and curious about the music. As long as you include some relaxed tempos in a set people are likely to dance. This music is very danceable. I think it is so palatable to audiences in my area because it's such a compelling blend of sounds that are both familiar, and completely foreign. On top of that it can be rowdy and fun, and still have a lot of substance.

    Some people come in off the street to see the show, just becase they're compelled by the sound. Others come in for a drink at the pub and stay the whole night because they got wrapped up in the music. The draw isn't because we're amazing players. I figure we're alright, and I like what we do, but I'm convinced there is something about the style itself that creates this pull.

    Granted, these aren't the people who are going to sign up for Andrew's Django Camp (bless the hearts of those who do). Sure, some of the guitarists might at some point, but mostly I'm talking about the non-playing public. I think it's important to remember you don't have to play this stuff or be an instrumentalist to like it.
    We might be coming to a peak with the hardcore fans. The people who have hungrily consumed every gypsy jazz tutorial and cd that's been released. All the same, there's a large public full of casual (and not so casual) listeners still waiting to be introduced to this stuff.

    p.s.
    One thing that I think makes a difference to both markets is sameness. There are a lot of albums I haven't bought because I've already got an hours worth of fine recordings of: I'll see you in my dreams, sweet georgia brown, All of me etc. and three hours of minor swing and dark eyes. The same licks over the same tunes is over saturating the market. Patrick Saussois, Romane, and a whole bunch of other guys playing originals and more obscure tunes, are important because they revitalize the genre. The same thing that can be said about tunes should be said about soloing vocabulary, amusingly enough a lot of the same names come up: Saussois, Romane, Raffalli etc.
    I've noticed that the non-musicians are pretty cognizant of set lists and repertoire. Keeping that varied seems pretty important.

    -One of those other Jacks
  • Pete from ClevelandPete from Cleveland Cleveland, OHNew
    Posts: 2
    In Cleveland, Ohio, USA there are very few GJ players - no GJ scene to speak of really. I moved here last July and many players here know about GJ but don't play it for a variety of reasons. Seems to be decent GJ scenes in the neighboring cities of Chicago, Detroit, and Buffalo so I am hoping it spreads to Cleveland soon - am trying to do my part and am arranging a GJ clinic at a respected guitar shop here in Cleveland this summer.

    My perception is that listeners always enjoy the music and find it quite accessible but players have to put in significant time to perform it. Given the typical enjoyment of the audience listeners, I am not sure why the general public does not seem to seek out recorded GJ music for listening.

    I seem to hear GJ music used in ads, etc. more lately so I assumed additional growth. Regarding suppliers and those interested in supporting the music through products and services, I perceive that the available margin pool may be growing (more shoppers to sell products to), however the number of available offerings is far outpacing the margin pool growth rate. I assume there will be a correction/rationalization of the available offerings - by example, how many decent GJ guitar models are available now that are <800$USD vs 5 yrs ago? I do agree that there must be many GJ guitars collecting dust as this music requires a fairly significant commitment to play.

    WML,
    Pete
  • djadamdjadam Boulder, CONew
    Posts: 249
    One more reason it might be hard for new artists to sell CDs in this genre - that goddamn Django Reinhardt had to record enough music to fill 40 of them!!! :shock:

    After you buy all those, you'll be too broke to buy modern stuff, plus it'll take you years to get through that material... but thank god for it!
    I seem to hear GJ music used in ads, etc. more lately so I assumed additional growth.

    Yep - the jingle writers are all over the stuff.
  • Teddy DupontTeddy Dupont Deity
    Posts: 1,271
    For someone who has been interested in Django and subsequently gypsy jazz since 1955, I believe the music is a popular as it has ever been during that period. The problem is that the market is saturated. There is simply too much gypsy jazz "product" around - be that guitars, CDs, music books, festivals or groups.

    It will always be a niche music and that is part of the charm except to those whose involvement is essentailly commercial. In addition, the current obsession with speed and technical dexterity does nothing to endear it to the wider public and is a limiting factor to further growth.
  • Michael BauerMichael Bauer Chicago, ILProdigy Selmers, Busatos and more…oh my!
    Posts: 1,002
    Teddy makes a good point about the current obsession with speed. While I watch and can only dream when Kruno or Andreas play licks so fast they threaten the sound barrier, my wife complains to me that all those fast licks sound the same to her after awhile and she loses interest. Who was the wag that said, "I can't hear that fast"?! I'm like some of the others: after so many CD's, I have to have a real reason to buy another. I love Wrembel's new CD, which is really stretching out in a new direction, and the Romane/Stochelo CD I bought recently is very appealing, especially for the new numbers. Lollo Meier I buy just for the sheer melodic beauty of his playing!!! But this is still great music live, and I delight in watching people's faces light up when they hear this music for the first time.

    Like all music that is difficult to play, it is always going to be on the fringes. And because it is primarily string music, it is likely to remain outside the mainstream of jazz as well. Let's face it...horn and keyboard players are snobby about guitars. But staying in the fringes can be good. Does anyone really want a GJ version of Kenny G???!!!

    I don't think we can say that it has peaked at all. Alot of guitarists like me who were bored with the same old blues and rock licks have found in this music a place to rethink our approaches to the instrument and fall in love with the guitar all over again. Some will drift away to other things and take a little Django back to whatever else they play, but others will stick around for the music and the challenge. I think this is the most challenging genre of guitar music there is (and I say that as a former classical guitarist) and that challenge alone will keep drawing players in for years to come. The current renaissance may fade somewhat, but there will always be a bedrock level to spawn future spurts of growth, and somewhere a new Django may emerge to take guitar as far beyond the known limits as Django did the first time!
    I've never been a guitar player, but I've played one on stage.
  • MichaelHorowitzMichaelHorowitz SeattleAdministrator
    Posts: 6,179
    One thing that's worth considering, is that we don't seem to have "the next big thing" right now. If you look at the history of this revival, which more or less began in the early 90s, you'll see a succession of "sensations" that fueled interest in this music:

    [b]1990s - The Rosenberg Era[/b]: I think it's safe to say that the Rosenberg trio were the first to really make Gypsy jazz commercialy viable. Even though most of their repertoire was the same stuff the 80s virtuosos had been playing (i.e. Raphael Fays, Fappy, etc), they did it faster, slicker, and more consistently. I remember the first time I heard the Rosenberg Trio...I just couldn't believe it was real! So fast, so perfect. Those 90s live shows were high wire acts....amazing they could perform at those tempos with such accuracy and consistency.













    [b]Late 90s-2001 - The Jimmy Rosenberg Era[/b]: As if the Rosenberg Trio wasn't enough, here comes their cousin who's arguably faster, more soleful, and creative then Stochelo. Jimmy was on his way to becoming the first Gypsy jazz mega star. He had a million dollar contract with Sony and was being heavily promoted in the US on the radio. I remember many of my girlfriend's friends, who had no real interest in jazz or guitar, had his [i]Sinti[/i] CD. He was going mainstream. But personal problems sidetracked his career, and he's still struggling to this day.














    [b]2001-2005 - The Bireli Lagrene Era[/b]: For so long, one of the great frustrations of Gypsy jazz fans was that the genre's biggest talent, Bireli Lagrene, hadn't touched a Selmer since he was a kid. More interested in playing modern jazz, fretless bass, and even drums, Bireli seemed have been "lost" to those who loved his early Hot Club style recordings. Everyone was overjoyed when Bireli came back to his roots with the Gypsy Project. The Live in Vienne DVD may be the crowing achievement of this current revival:













    But Bireli has also been struggling with personal problems lately. And even when he does perform or record, he's often playing an archtop in a more modern style. Seems like his return to Gypsy jazz was short lived.

    For the last couple of years it doesn't seem like anyone has really stuck out as the new sensation. On the other hand, maybe we don't need that anymore. There are more active performers in N.America and Europe then ever....so maybe Gypsy jazz is evolving out of a cultish worship of a few select virtuosos into a more balanced and sustainable scene with numerous successful performers.
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