Classic Gypsy Waltzes and Brazilian Choro

jmcgann

I am noticing some interesting direct relations between the classic waltzes of the idiom and Brazilian choros:

1) Form. The ABACA, ABACDA and variants are common to both. Lots of minor keys in the A and B parts, and often a major key in the C part. I've seen writers observe a sense of 'relief' or 'easier sound' in the C sections in both styles.

2) Interpretation. Like so much "ear' music (or 'soul' music?), the melodies are rarely played exactly the same way twice, so each recording is a master class in melodic variation. Written versions, even literal transcriptions, are rarely 'definitive' since great players always put their own stamps on the music, which will vary from performance to performance.

3) Fire. While not all Choros are waltzes, there are several waltzes that are virtuosic show pieces.

4) Harmony. The kinds of progressions used, with key changes and interesting out-of-key chords, are another common feature.

5) Melodic rhythm. The tunes written by Pixinguinha, a wind player, are generally no less note-intensive than those of Jacob do Bandolim, a fellow string player (mandolin). The Gypsy waltzes and Choros are each played with a kind of swing that is different from what we think of as American swing (although that's a dangerous concept, because there are many variants on the usual 'subdivided triplet' always seen in the books), but have their own brand of forward motion and swing.


Choro (as I understand it) has always been a blend of Brazilian, European, and later Jazz influences.

The rhythmic approaches to the two styles, particularly in the accompaniment, do vary tremendously, as does the instrumentation (the guitars used in choro nowadays are generally 7 string, played fingerstyle, often by players with beautiful classical guitar tone and chops, combined with Brazilian espirit).

chip3174

Yes I think you are right...have never thought about the Choro, but I remember hearing the great John Williams mentioning how a Barrios waltz in D minor reminded him of Django...since I've been listening to these musette waltzes I think I kind of understand where he's coming from.

Interesting how much the classical and jazz worlds intersect in Gypsy jazz.

Chip

scot

Waltzes in this style of music generally fall into several different categories. Some which follow the ABCAB (Passion, Balajo, etc) or similar form are usually musette valses made for dancing. Others which have a double 32-bar form (Swing Valse, Panique, La Minch etc) appear to have been written as music for listening - I'm not sure if these were ever played in the dance halls or not. There are also modern gypsy valses like "Dolores", "Valse a Rosenthal" and similar. Any similarity between any of these valses and other music like choro is probably coincidental. For example, the ABCAB form that was so popular in the bal-musette was developed for a specific reason - A and B were played fast and the trio then slowed down to give the dancers a chance to catch their breath (though they were rarely played this way on records), and often the trio was played in the relative major if A and B were minor. It's more likely that similarities between French waltzes and things like choro are somehow related to "classical" forms of waltz composition. I don't know anything at all about that subject, but one thing is certain - waltzes often follow very similar chord progressions and that's true in many different styles of waltzing around the western world.

Jack

I just want to go on record as saying Scot Wise is a personal hero. The hell with Wikipedia, the man is the OED of Gypsy Jazz.

best,
Jack.

kimmo

scot wrote:

For example, the ABCAB form that was so popular in the bal-musette was developed for a specific reason - A and B were played fast and the trio then slowed down to give the dancers a chance to catch their breath (though they were rarely played this way on records), and often the trio was played in the relative major if A and B were minor. It's more likely that similarities between French waltzes and things like choro are somehow related to "classical" forms of waltz composition.

Absolutely right, again. Trio (in different key and feel than A and was already an essential part of minuet - a 3/4 court dance - from 17th century on, most probably for the reason Scot explains above.

Jack wrote:

-- Scot Wise -- is the OED of Gypsy Jazz.

Absolutely right.

jmcgann

Scot, thanks for your comments! It's so great to get real information, like the slowing down of the C sections for dancers.Vedddy interesting!

I'm still enjoying the recordings you sent me a few years back, and thanks again for those!

Interesting how much the classical and jazz worlds intersect in Gypsy jazz.

Some of the greatest classical guitarists, like Segovia and Julian Bream, were big Django fans. I read that Bream would play Django solos at parties for fun...

chip3174

Yes Bream loved Django as did John Williams. I haven't heard it myself, but I have been told there is some documentary footage of Bream actually playing some hot-club style stuff...

Also Roland Dyens has recorded "Nuages" I think...

CHip

chip3174

Yes Bream loved Django as did John Williams. I haven't heard it myself, but I have been told there is some documentary footage of Bream actually playing some hot-club style stuff...

Also Roland Dyens has recorded "Nuages" I think...

CHip

Jack

Here's some footage from the concert for Grappelli's 80th birthday w/Bream and others:



If I'm not mistaken, this is the concert where Grappelli put him through a little humiliation by forcing him to take another chorus or two AFTER he'd played his worked-out-in-advance "improvised" solo...

best,
Jack.

kimmo

chip3174 wrote:

Yes Bream loved Django as did John Williams. I haven't heard it myself, but I have been told there is some documentary footage of Bream actually playing some hot-club style stuff...

Also Roland Dyens has recorded "Nuages" I think...

CHip

You can see Bream play Viper's Dream in the DVD Julian Bream - My Life in Music. It's released by Music on Earth, same company that made the marvelous Grappelli bio-DVD and book. Bream also tells a story of one of his first recitals that he was prepared to perform with his D-hole Maccaferri harp-guitar. He was prohibited to play with that toy, and was given "a proper guitar" instead.

Leo Brouwer composed Variaciones Sobre Un Tema ("Nuages") Te Django Reinhardt in 1984, it was first recorded by Jorge Oraison for a Dutch label Etcetera. I haven't heard other recordins, but would be very surprised, if there weren't any.

djangology

i just have to say, that bass player is good, in that video. ive never heard a solo quite like that one.

There is a Choro tune called "Delicado" that is awesome. its a good tune to start with.