Wrist movement

bloomschool

Hello everyone. Got a question again. Does the picking movement only come from the wrist? When I play fast, or at least attempt to play fast, I find that I must use my arm to generate the movement. Thanks.

a

the wrist is just a hinge...i think the motion needs to start up in you arm.

MichaelHorowitz

I'd definitely say it's from the wrist. If you mostly move from the elbow there's a tendency to lock your wrist which will really slow you down.

spud

firstly , thank you michael for your book and site and for the wealth of info and dialogue it contains.
i am just beginning to try to change my technique with the help of your book and i find all the discussion about the position and movement of the right hand very interesting.
as for this topic about the wrist i would like to get more specific- i think when most people talk about the movement from the elbow -they mean raising and lowering the forearm from the elbow joint. wrist movement is made more complicated because the joint is connected by two bones on the forearm. one can raise and lower the hand in a hinge like way or can rotate the hand (which in turn engages more of the forearm) or can move the hand from side to side like a snake's head. or one can do any combination of the movments.
to me (at my very beginner's stage) it seems that the movement needed is mostly the rotation movment (with maybe a tiny bit of hinge like movement at the wrist-lowering and raising).
what do you folks think? how could it be described more precisely?
the positioning of the hand -its angle is created by just letting the hand hang by gravity.

MichaelHorowitz

it's actually really hard to talk about these things sometimes...

One of the best analogies is shaking out a match. It's a similar movement to that. Of course there is some movement from the elbow. But I really focus more on what the wrist is doing...that's were people have the most problems. Their wrist gets too stiff, too close to the bridge, and too strained. If you have a loose wrist and a good position, it all falls into to place.

-Michael

djangology

I think the movement is most evident when doing chromatic runs. Michael is right though, its impossible to explain.

bloomschool

Well, I think I might have made a breakthrough today. I placed my right elbow farther behind on the lower bout and it seems to allow my wrist to more freely move and prevents me from using my arm for motion. So the movement now looks correct. In other words, I seem to be picking from the wrist and it feels loose. Thanks everyone. Any comments on this arm positio of mine?
Thanks.

a

look at jimmy rosenberg footage from when he was a little kid, it's pretty clear that his wrist is totally loose and all the motion is coming from his elbow (and the bicept is what moves the elbow). also his arm is up on top of the guitar so that his forearm can dangle. i believe the mature players do this but it isn't as obvious because they're so much larger.

BluesBop Harry

Hello Bloomschool,
Keep working at it and try to practice in front of a mirror or videotape yourself and watch lots of videos of the greats and then mimic their movements.
Don't give up, it'll take time and work but it's totally worth it.
If posible go to a festival or concert to watch it done in person, BTW Djangofest NW is just around the corner...
Looks like it's gonna be hot!


Hi a,
I watched the video you posted of Jimmy and Mozes when they were kids, great stuff, I'm not crazy about "Bossa Dorado" though...but that's just me.
I guess everyone interprets things in a different way but to me it seems clear all the motion is in Jimmy's wrist very loose and bouncy taking advantage of the momentum and gravity...it looks a little weird because of his other fingers being extended and he's so little he has to hang his arm from the sides... but I'm pretty sure it's all from the wrist, no arm and no other muscles.
The motion is even more evident on Stochelo's hand when he begins to solo.
In fact from my point of view, the only time you ever use muscles to generate motion, is the upstroke or the preparation of the downstrokes, and a little maybe with sweep strokes but the rest it's just gravity and the weight of the hand, isn't it?
Maybe what you're seeing it's an optical illusion?
The only two guys I've seen that play from the arm are Romane and Dorado, rest strokes but from the arm.

a

the upstroke and downstroke are the motions. i'm not talking about a locked wrist like romane or dorado. when i say the motion starts up in the arm, it's like talking about the way a pro baseball pitcher throws. they don't throw from their wrist.. the motion starts down in the feet, flows up the body, through the wrist and to the ball. there is zero tension; the entire body is loose. i don't think the ball would go far if they tried to throw from their wrist. it's almost the same thing here. the only difference is that the motion starts in the upper arm.

robertsaunders

This wrist-action issue is consuming me lately too, because I feel like I'm almost there but that it's taking forever. I'm getting fairly good speed now, just not what I want yet. I notice that when I really focus on picking from the wrist, with the hand up off the bridge and arm down, that I "push" more, from the base of the thumb, especially if I've warmed up with the elementary exercises in Gypsy Picking. I've noticed while doing those (starting agonizingly slowly every day) that an innate reflex, an ability of the wrist to "oscillate" emerges, albeit uncontrolled. My goal is to get that oscillation under control. I feel close, but that it will probably take several more months.

When I start to feel discouraged I'm reminded of how long it takes a person doing aerobics or a body-builder to get in condition, i.e., from 4-6 to more months. So why should building a new picking technique be any different? I also regard this at times like learning to juggle, i.e., really frustrating and requiring months of practice.