newbie questions about 7th chords theory

steven_eire

Hi there, coming from a bluesy pentatonic players background i am relatively new to all this jazz and theory stuff. I have a few quick questions about how to deal with 7th chords and would really appreciate some advice

i have read about and been able to work into my playing the idea of substituting an 7(b9) chord with the diminished scale of a tone above it for example playing Fdim when the E7 comes up in minor swing and this sounds pretty good to my ears

but in a typical sequence like this: C | A7 | D7 | G7 how would you play over these 7ths? can i treat them all like 7(b9)s? and play the corresponding diminished substitutions for all of them?

also when playing a V7 -> I type progression should i be playing different things on the V7 chord depending on whether the one chord will be maj or min or do i just try and suggest that when it resolves to the one?
in other words would you play the same thing going from D7 to G as you would D7 to Gmin when playing on the 7th chord (D7) or is there better notes to lead in to either the major or minor?

Joli Gadjo

I am far for being an expert, but I would say that on an E7, you can use 9th and the 5th and alter them sharp or flat if you feel like it. I would still avoid 4th and 6th.
It is quite easy to go from E7 to Fdim :
E7 : E G# B D E
Fdim : D B G#
So since they already have a lot in common, you can introduce the 7th chord with a dim one. It's very convenient, you can move this shape on the neck, it's a good trick to get to the next shape you want to reach up or down the neck.
Over a 7th chord you can also just play the arpeggio itself. I think I've also seen Bireli Lagrene playing a straight C arpeggio on D7 in All of me, but I haven't tried this yet.
Or you can play the corresponding minor chord (C#m).

From D7 to a G, I guess you could probably use some comparable strategies.
First D7 and G have D in common and also E and A if you consider playing G6/9 (G B D E A) and D7/9 (D F# A C D E). That's already several notes you can use to link them.
If you want to try to play something different for the D7 -> Gm, you just have to alter the 5th of the D7 to get to the m3rd of G : A-A#... which might lead your Gm sound more like a A#major... but that's fine. I assume it would depend where is the next shape you want to reach, and if it's the end of your solo...

Part of this is probably misleading, but at least it's a start that someone can correct... Still, I hope this helps...

Jack

[quote="steven_eire"]but in a typical sequence like this: C | A7 | D7 | G7 how would you play over these 7ths? can i treat them all like 7(b9)s? and play the corresponding diminished substitutions for all of them?
[/quote]

One common idea in progressions like this is to use tritone substituion, turning the above into: C | A7 | Ab7 | G7...then you can use the 7b9 arpeggio idea combined with a chromatic motion, like so:

A7...........................................Ab7.....................................G7
---------------------------6--9--6--9--8--5----------------------
--------------------5--8---------------------7--4--------------
-----------------6----------------------------------5--------
-----------5--8---------------------------------------7--4----
-----4--7---------------------------------------------------6--3--
--5---------------------------------------------------------------4--3-etc.

Obviously you don't have to run all the way up and down; experiment with it and come up with some good lines.
best,
Jack.

steven_eire

thanks Joli & jack, thats exactly the type of things i was hoping for. im gonna try some of that out now.