Django's Classical Guitar

PayneJon

Brazilian Guitar Archives
Messages # 2083 and 2105
etc.

PayneJon

Django meets Ida Presti.

Stackabones

PayneJon wrote:

Django meets Ida Presti.

Huh?

PayneJon

Stackabones wrote:

PayneJon wrote:

Django meets Ida Presti.

Huh ?

What?

PayneJon

PayneJon wrote:

Stackabones wrote:

PayneJon wrote:

Django meets Ida Presti.

Huh ?

What?

I was saying that there is reference to Django and Ida Presti's meeting in the letters section of the site Brazilian Guitar Archives. Some put there by Michael Horowitz himself.
I don't know what Scot means when he says that there is not a single shred of evidence that exists which shows that they ever met. And we also have the recent biography on Ida Presti which makes mention of this.
By the way, I picked up a CD by Habib Koite called Baro and enjoy it tremendously! It's an interesting guitar that he plays
Recently I've been noticing that the bracing on the Kohno and Matsuoka guitars are similar to the bracing on a Maccaferri classical guitar. Perhaps that is why the Django fan Julian Bream added a Kohno to his collection and maybe this would be another good guitar for Jazz!
Again I say that it is certainly wonderful that a classical guitar can be used for Jazz.

scot

There are many well-researched books and articles on the life and times of Django Reinhardt, jazz in France, cafe society in France between the wars, after the wars, classical music between the wars etc. There is a long bibliography at the end of Dregni's biography. I've read a lot of these books and there's no mention of Ida Presti. There is however ample documentation of Django's friendships and relationships with many people inside and outside music - Cocteau, Pianfetti and Savitry, boxers like Marcel Cerdan, the Comtesse de Noailles - he was a celebrity, doubtless he knew a lot of people in all walks of life. He liked to shoot pool and play cards and who knows who his opponents were? Yet in all this ample documentation of a famous man's life, the only mention of Ida Presti comes on an internet thread - not generally a reliable source for accurate information. An internet forum thread is not historical evidence, it's more like idle chit-chat. That's all this is - to get the facts, read the books. (I have not yet been able to get a copy of Ida Presti's biography but I will)

DR was a professional musician who listened to all sorts of music. He was renowned in his own time and today he is a legendary figure. Lots of people over the years have tried to attach themselves to his legend - look at how many Selmer guitars were claimed to have been owned by Django. At one time, nearly all Selmer guitars sold in the USA came with this "provenance". People routinely try to find a link from their favorite guitarist in other styles to Django, for all sorts of silly reasons - from Hendrix's "Band of Gypsies" to Trey Anastasio because he has the same last name as a luthier who made Selmer style guitars. There was actually a thread suggesting this on a group years ago. It would be hard to find a guitarist of any skill who hasn't listened to Django. But outside the small world of "gypsy jazz" it's pretty hard to find much overt influence. Chet Atkins and Jerry Reed both loved Django's music, but there really isn't any evidence of it in either guitarists' playing, just to give one easy example. Maybe Django did cross paths with Ida Presti somewhere. But how would we know and what would the significance be?

I'm sorry to so hard-headed here. I like Ida Presti's compositions and playing a lot and agree that she seems to be sadly unrecognized by the classical guitar world. It's hard to figure. An imaginary meeting between her and Django won't change that, though.

Teddy Dupont

Scot is absolutely correct. There is no credible evidence whatsoever that Django ever met Ida Presti. He may have done as he may have met anyone from that period but unless someone can produce something truly tangible that has not previously been in the public domain, we will never know for sure.

François RAVEZ

Hello Scot, Roger and all,
Recently a new french magazine about Classical Guitar (Guitar Acoustic Classic #01) published an article about Ida Presti and the duo she formed with the egyptian-born guitarist Alexandro Lagoya (who became her husband). This article written by Carol MAJOR is illustrated with many photos from the collection of Ida Presti's daughter (born from a first wedding) Elisabeth Presti. In this article, the name of Django Reinhardt appears twice :
1) :"the greatest [female]guitarist of all times, the one who was able to astonish the classical world as well as drawing some emotion tears from Django Reinhardt will live just 43 years and the story of the most famous duo of guitarist in the world will just last 16 years."(La plus grande guitariste de tous les temps, celle qui saura autant étonner les gens du classique que tirer des larmes d'émotion à Django Reinhardt ne vivra en effet qu'à peine 43 ans, et l'histoire du duo de guitaristes le plus célèbre du monde durera tout juste 16 ans.).
2) : In this time, if Alexandre Lagoya is almost unknown, Ida Presti is on her side already a star. Since 15 years, she plays in the more prestigious concert halls, she has played a small part in the movie "Le Petit Chose" and plays twice a week on the radio. She is compared to the famous Andrès Segovia, she is a friend of Django Reinhardt, of guitar maker Julian Ramirez, of ballet dancer Serge Lifar, of flautist Jean-Pierre Rampal, of spanish ballerina "La Joselito" and also of opera singer Lily Pons. (A cette époque, si Alexandre Lagoya est quasiment inconnu, Ida Presti est pour sa part déjà une star. Depuis 15 ans elle se produit dans toutes les grandes salles, a fait une apparition dans "Le Petit Chose",et joue deux fois par semaine à la TSF. On la compare à l'immense Andrès Segovia, elle est l'amie de Django Reinhardt, du luthier Julian Ramirez, du danseur Serge Lifar, du flûtiste Jean-Pierre Rampal, de la danseuse espagnole "La Joselito" ou encore de la cantatrice Lily Pons.).

We can assume that the author of this article has been in contact with Ida Presti's family (at least with her daughter) and has collected some reliable information from them.

Best regards

François RAVEZ

Stackabones

Well, well, well.

Cool info!!!

Probably won't solve anything yet. Somebody has GOT to be wrong, right?

scot

I have finally located and read Ida Presti's biography - many thanks to the interlibrary loan system. It was a very interesting book about a unique person and musician. She had a most unusual childhood and after reading her story I believe that she was certainly friends with Django and spent more than a bit of time around him. I don't suppose there was much cross-influence musically for obvious reasons. It was more a case of two musicans of somewhat similar temperament and capabilities who enjoyed each others playing and company. Ida Presti was like Django in that she mastered her technique when she was still a child and was thus able to devote her life to a highly expressive manner of playing. And there were other similarities: she had unusual hands as a result of her father manipulating her fingers from infancy. She was able to memorize difficult pieces very quickly and reportedly never made any mistakes while playing. She herself was modest and spiritual and believed in using her skill to serve the music and not the other way around. Thus her playing was always effortless and lyrical and listeners responded easily to her. And this is clearly evident on her recordings.

There is an astonishing photograph here http://bwhalin.blogspot.com/2007/01/tod ... resti.html of Ida Presti fingering a chord of four E notes which she was reportedly ably to grab as easily as the rest of us can grab an Am6.

The softbound book is unfortunately and outrageously priced at nearly $200. It's not a critical biography - honestly it borders on hagiography. I'm as cynical and skeptical as the next hipster, but I really enjoyed reading this book and I feel like I learned some good lessons about playing here - the kinds of things you learn about music that only happen without your guitar in hand, when you have time to reflect. Not only that, but this thread encouraged me to look further into the life and art of a guitarist I only knew a bit about, and that's a good thing. Ida Presti was really one of the greatest guitarists ever, easily the equal of Segovia and Bream.

I recommend this book highly - try the loan system at your local public library if you want to read it. Music On Earth (same folks who did the Grapelly DVD) is preparing a documentary on Ida Presti and it should be as good as the one on SG. Something to look forward to...

Thanks to everyone who put their two cents in this thread.