Review: Manouche Modele Orchestre 12-Fret D-Hole

djangology

Look around here - you won't find a review of a Dupont anywhere except a single thread where someone had to try and drag a review out of somebody. What good would it do one to review a guitar that's beyond reproach

the reason you don't is because DuPont is the "standard" by which all other guitars would/could be compared... IMHO . it's somewhat assumed that everyone knows how a DuPont performs and therefore there is no review necessary...

the sharp edges of the mustache ends

those mustaches are really funny looking.

BluesBop Harry

I posted a review of a Dupont Nomade that I own and nobody had to "drag it out of me" I said it as I see it, cool guitar if you can find one for less than $1500 (better than the comparable asian import I've tried) but still not a substitute for a "real" Dupont... just a suitable "combat" instrument.
I use it to replace my old Gitane which I sold at a good price, I liked the sound of that guitar but I just couldn't stand the thin neck, the Nomade does better in that respect and the tone is nicer too.

The point I tried to make on my first post, and that Marc nailed, is that generally it's not worthwhile to step up incrementally with Gypsy Jazz guitars, once you outgrow your Gitane or Cigano or whatever go straight to a good handmade guitar that you'll be happy with and never need to trade up. If you can afford it keep your old guitar for traveling and hard gigging.

frater

IMO the real issue with GJ guitars made in the Far East is the weight. Without thinner tops no way to have the resonance and snap of a good Dupont... on the other hand I wish I had some of the basses of my DG 300 on my MD 50 E. Manouche have a good compromise: mine sounds much more "selmerish" than a lot of MD 50 I tried lately.

Craig Bumgarner

Michael Horowitz wrote:

I've found you get what you pay for with guitars. The vintage ones and the high end European makers like Favino and Dupont are hard to beat. Although, the Cigano GJ-10 is one hell of a guitar for under $400. So I guess in that case you get more then you pay for!

There is a notion that 85% of perfection can be had for a relatively low cost, but as you approach 100% perfection, the costs just keep doubling even with minor improvements. Is a high end vintage or custom guitar really 10 or 20 times better than the a $500 factory guitar? Arguably not, but as perfection is approached, the price willingly paid rises exponentially none the less. Seems to be true across any number of examples.

CB

Klezmorim

Craig Bumgarner wrote:

There is a notion that 85% of perfection can be had for a relatively low cost, but as you approach 100% perfection, the costs just keep doubling even with minor improvements....

CB

Ah, you are referring to the "80-20 Rule" (aka "the Pareto Principle," q.v. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle).

Yup, 80% of what you want can be had for 20% of the cost of perfection. Trying to "close the gap" is what'll cost you. Put another way, you'll spend 4 times more trying to get that last 20%, regardless of whether you're looking for that perfect car, house, woman... or guitar.

"What's in YOUR wallet?"

8)

MichaelHorowitz

There is a notion that 85% of perfection can be had for a relatively low cost, but as you approach 100% perfection, the costs just keep doubling even with minor improvements.

Yes, I'd say that's true. Most of the better Asian stuff is perfectly capable of being used professionally (as long as proper setup and modifications are done.) The better ones like the DG-340 meet all the basic requirements for volume, tone etc.

But having that extra 15% is SOOOOOO nice if you can get it. I try to avoid the suggestion that a better guitar will make you make you a better guitar player, but the truth is that sometimes it can. One thing you learn when having an exceptional guitar is what the limits are. On lesser guitars there were always phrases and such that never sounded quite right or I simply couldn't play at all because the guitar just wasn't up to it. But when I eventually got better performing guitars that responded to a light touch and had volume and tone galore, suddenly these same things that had frustrated me for years were so easy to play and sounded perfect. So now when I'm playing a more modest guitar I know it's the guitars fault if one of these sorts of phrases doesn't sound good....ha ha

Also, you simply can't put a price on the gleeful satisfaction of playing on a wonderful sounding instrument that has all sorts of complexity, projection, and tone. It's the ultimate playing experience....but do you need it? No, there are plenty of affordable instruments that will do the job, just less elegantly.

One thing to consider is that if you're a pro, or serious amatuer, you're probably playing you're guitar a lot. Several hours a day...maybe even up to 10 hours a day! If I'm using something that much, I'll shell out of for the best thing I can afford. Those little differences really make a difference with that level of use. Some of the little annoying tonal things about the Asian guitars will really drive you nuts if you have to hear them 10 hours a day!

I should mention that in general I've noticed that the players with the really fine guitars are the ones whose tone I like the most (Stochelo - Selmer, Fapy - Selmer, Bireli - Favino/Dupont VR/Hahl, Jimmy Rosenberg - Favino [on some recordings], etc.)

Other players like Angelo Debarre have never really had the greatest tone IMO and he's usually played fairly modest instruments.

-Michael

frater

Michael Horowitz wrote:

[Other players like Angelo Debarre have never really had the greatest tone IMO and he's usually played fairly modest instruments.

That's an interesting observation. From what I know in the past Debarre used his Anastasio 14 fret D-hole in many recordings (included "Come into My Swing" where he was supposed to play a Gallato, err...).

Personally I really like his tone in "Entre Amis" where he used a Dell' Arte "Hommage" built by Kinneard for the occasion (maybe a couple of these were made, I don't remember). Funnily enough Debarre "secretly" sold the guitar right after the recording at Guitare Village and I was stupid enough not to buy it.

http://www.guitare-village.com/occasion ... tos_93.php

Debarre actually always seemed to be most concerned with hassle free solutions in his live performance than tone. I think a bold attitude of the man towards the instrument plays a part here, since he' s the classic guitarist who could make a washboard sing... Also I understand he never wanted to risk a good guitar on traveling after he had a couple of good ones smashed (hence the monstrous humbucker-equipped Saga he toured a lot with!).

Lately it seems to me he's a bit more concerned about tone than endorsement (although he must have something like four at the moment!). His custom ALD D hole has a marvelous voice so let's hope we'll hear his fantastic playing in a beautiful tone from now on!

MichaelHorowitz

That's an interesting observation. From what I know in the past Debarre used his Anastasio 14 fret D-hole in many recordings (included "Come into My Swing" where he was supposed to play a Gallato, err...).

Are you sure? I have a friend locally who owns the Anastasio that Debarre used on the Gypsy Guitars CD. Nice guitars...

Personally I really like his tone in "Entre Amis" where he used a Dell' Arte "Hommage" built by Kinneard for the occasion (maybe a couple of these were made, I don't remember).

It's not that he sounds bad or anything...the tone of Debarre just doesn't wow me as much as Stochelo playing his Selmer or Dorado playing his Busato.

His custom ALD D hole has a marvelous voice so let's hope we'll hear his fantastic playing in a beautiful tone from now on!

IMO he's getting the best sound he's ever had with the ALD. We've had a few for sale here and they're really nice.

'm

frater

Are you sure? I have a friend locally who owns the Anastasio that Debarre used on the Gypsy Guitars CD. Nice guitars...

Right: he had already sold the guitar (as always!) but rumors say he borrowed it back for the occasion... habits are hard to break, I guess!

bopbell1

In Australia we have a common issue of unstable necks on Manouche brand guitars. Both truss rod and non-trussed necks have often a nasty hump at the 12th-14th fret. Frets on guitars at new (I have seen 4) have been able to have a finger nail placed between the fret head and the timber. On my Modelle Jazz no 85, its original tuners were that stiff that plastic winders came lose and came wound off after a couple of weeks.
In 18 months of ownership I have replaced the tuners with "Millers". The bone nut has been replaced because the original arrived with uneven string spacing. The floating bridge has had a new ebony crown carved to improve on intonation. And finally a finger board shave and re-fret.
It's a keeper because in my opinion it has a good voice. Unfortunately quality of workmanship, tuners and possible selection of unseasoned neck timber have detracted from an otherwise good guitar.