composers?

melodymaker

does anyone know who wrote these tunes?

montagne saint-genevieve
si tu savais
dinah
I'll see you in my dreams
Swing Gitane is a traditional gypsy tune correct?

big thanks.

Jack

montagne saint-genevieve (Django)
si tu savais (Georges Ulmer, sometimes also listed is G.Koger)
dinah (Askt/Lewis/Young)
I'll see you in my dreams (Jones/Kahn)

Swing Gitane is a traditional gypsy tune correct?
This is an interesting subject...it's usually listed as trad, but there' some question about that. It's possible it was composed by Andre Dedjean; check out this thread for details.

best,
Jack.

melodymaker

so mantagne is a django compostion? I was unsure, as I never heard a recorded version. Is there one? by django that is?

I tried to find out the author of si tu savais and came up with a few possibilities... ulmer and somewhere I read Lionel Florence. so your sure it's Ulmer?

thanks jack

RomKyzar

I believe this was one of Django's early complicated show off
waltzes, but not recorded by him. Just remembered and
recorded by his contemporaries.

François RAVEZ

I tried to find out the author of si tu savais and came up with a few possibilities... ulmer and somewhere I read Lionel Florence. so your sure it's Ulmer?

I am positively certain that Georges ULMER is the composer of the lyrics and the music of 'Si tu savais', because I have 3 different copies of the music sheet of this tune. Now a man called Jean CATEL composed some english lyrics to this tune, which is then called 'I miss you'. The tune was sung by various artists including Martha LOVE and Anny FLORE.
Geo KOGER co-wrote a lot of lyrics for songs with Georges Ulmer, for songs like 'Samedi Soir', 'Un Monsieur attendait', 'Un p'tit bout de femme' and of Georges biggest hit : 'Pigalle'. Well sometimes you will see Guy Luypaerts also credited for co-writing the music of 'Pigalle'. Georges Ulmer was Danish, so may be he sometimes needed some help for his french to be corrected by Geo KOGER.

Best

François RAVEZ

Bones

Can anyone post the 'correct' chords for Si Tu Savais. I have seen a number of variations but I would be interested in the changes that Django recorded.

Thanks

Jack

Bones wrote:

Can anyone post the 'correct' chords for Si Tu Savais. I have seen a number of variations but I would be interested in the changes that Django recorded.

Thanks

There are some ideas here, here, and here. Good luck-I think your best bet is to take what's in those threads and play along with the Django recording until you feel it's right.

best,
Jack.

Jack

melodymaker wrote:

so mantagne is a django compostion? I was unsure, as I never heard a recorded version. Is there one? by django that is?

I tried to find out the author of si tu savais and came up with a few possibilities... ulmer and somewhere I read Lionel Florence. so your sure it's Ulmer?

thanks jack

Like François wrote, I'm sure Ulmer wrote Si Tu Savais. Montagne is a bit more up in the air, but not by much. Django never recorded it; I think it first appeared on a Matelot album that was described as a collection of previously unrecorded Django compositions. There are some who think Matelot composed at least some of those tunes, and that the Django link was simply something concocted to sell records, but most people agree that they are indeed Django's own, even if he didn't record them. Since they were "old-fashioned" valses that would have been composed in his youth, it makes sense, when one considers Django's forward-looking sense of himself as a musician, that he would have thought they weren't worth recording in his heyday.

Additionally, there's this passage in Dregni's latest book that sheds light on their authorship:

Django's valses manouche might never have survived if it hadn't been for his fellow Gypsy jazzmen who remembered and recorded them in later years. Baro and Matelo Ferret and Patotte Bousquet saved Django's earliest compositions, recreating them on later recordings. Django may not have even named his waltzes: Bousquet called his version of one of Django's tunes simply "Valse a Django"--"Waltz by Django." Matelo, who recorded four of them in 1960, visited Django's widow, Naguine, to ask her to bestow names on the compositions: she christened them for two of Django's grandchildren--"Gagoug" and "Choti"--as well as for the old bals Django once played--"Chez Jacquet: A la Petite Chaumiere," named for a cafe near the Porte de Clingnacourt, and "Montagne Sainte-Genevieve" in honor of Django's days playing with Guerino in La Mouffe.

Hope that helps,
Jack.

François RAVEZ

There are some ideas here, here, and here. Good luck-I think your best bet is to take what's in those threads and play along with the Django recording until you feel it's right.

Just to add another source : here are the chords transcribed by Paul Visvader.

Best

François RAVEZ

melodymaker

Jack wrote:

There are some who think Matelot composed at least some of those tunes, and that the Django link was simply something concocted to sell records, but most people agree that they are indeed Django's own, even if he didn't record them.

I first heard it by Matelo. Was Matelo the the first to record Montagne Saint-Genevieve?..

djangology

yeah. i heard once that there is Django version of Montagne St. Genevieve but that someone might have it stashed away somewhere. not sure if thats true though...