Heavy strings?

BluesBop Harry · April 2008

Yes Elliot, I also would assume most people already deep into this music would know not to use too heavy strings, I mean if they can even find anything more than 11s of this string type.
But I believe Bob is not so concerned about making that first sale and putting money in his pocket, he's looking after the guitar and trying to make sure nobody makes the mistake of putting too much tension on the top via heavy strings, which can happen and does happen, as Bob himself pointed out a lot of the older guitars are plagued with problems that could be derived from exactly this kind of mistreatment. Just look again at the post that started this tread: some people don't know, it's not their fault but they could cause serious damage to a Gypsy guitar.
How long do you think a Vielle Reserve could stand a .013 set??!! A discreet warning on the label couldn't hurt THAT much.

Elliot · April 2008

I agree with you Enrique but to presume the customer, even if he isn't the original purchaser, may be a newbie is making a statement about the target market I would avoid. It doesn't take too much depth to know there are only 2 choices of strings available. I mean, let's say you're Bireli, and you pick up a guitar that says that - wouldn't he wonder if this wasn't a beginner's guitar? I would.

This isn't the place to go into Marketing technique, but believe me there is a reason it exists. It would be like looking into a Ferrari and seeing a label saying "Do not go over 60 mph in first gear", dyt?

Just my proverbial .02

BluesBop Harry · May 2008

I see your point Elliot.
But wouldn't that be more like "Only use unleaded" which a Ferrari might actually say... I wouldn't know... I drive a VW bug myself and it really doesn't care what kind of fuel I put into it, hell it might run on tequila!.

You're right it's obvious to me too, common sense and djangobooks, but some people lack it...

Personally, if a guitar sounded good to me, I wouldn't care if the label said anything.

The Ferrari thing made me think of an old lady I knew... She drove a Mercedes and stubbornly refused to go past second gear. That didn't stop her from murdering the engine, speeding up and almost (thankfully) running people over. In her case a written label wouldn't have helped since she was so visually impaired she would have never figured out what it read, she wore inch thick glasses and while wearing them once mistook a rat for a bunny!!.... But that's another story.

MichaelHorowitz · May 2008

[i] Both of those Busatos you own had the fingerboards replaced - very likely to straighen the necks because one of the past owners liked big strings.
[/i]

Unfortuantly only one is mine! But I doubt these guitars had heavy strings on them....they were mostly likely made pre-1950s. Savarez didn't even start making the 11 gauge till the 90s (or so I'm told.) I'm fairly certain that most players were stringing these guitars with 10s until recently. But that doesn't mean that someone might have put a set of heavier bronze or nickle strings on at sometime. Unlikely though....

Well, back to the original question. We now do have a 12 gauge set avaible. Only manufactuer that makes it:

Lenzer
Fisoma Gypsy Jazz Strings - Medium (12-50) F2000 M

As explained at great length above, these are probably not a good idea on a long scale Gypsy guitar unless you have very, very low action. But they will probably work well on short scale Maccaferri type guitars.

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Jeff Moore · May 2008

He didn't say he was putting them on a gypsy guitar. He did ask if anyone knew if 13's were available.

Guadalupe Strings will make the set you want (13-56). I called and he said "no problem". I didn't ask a price. Their gypsy sets are $14, and he said he charges by the hour for set up. I bet he could "set up" in less than an hour. These guys are good.
323 981 7055

Bob Holo · May 2008

Gents - thanks for putting thought into this. I'm glad to hear there is no one right answer because I've been puzzling this for months now. Somehow my post dissapeared - I must have gone back to edit it and gotten a phonecall and never hit the 'submit' button before shutting down the PC. At any rate - the "Max string guage 11-47" seems interesting because it's not verbose enough to be patronizing/insulting to experienced players - which is indeed a risk in the highend market. If I do wind up doing some kind of label - it'll likely be that or something very similar.

Philip - It just occurred to me that I hijacked your thread. I'm sorry about that, man - I hope you got the information you needed. As you can no doubt tell, this is an oft discussed topic. Welcome to the forum.

djangology · May 2008

for 670mm, the tension difference between sets is:

.10-.44's - 106lbs
.11-.47's = 126lbs
.12-.50's = 149lbs
.13-.53's = 173lbs??

I would stay away from really heavy ones. As you can see, the tension ramps up quickly and could probably hurt your guitar. A set starting with .14 would probably do damage.

BluesBop Harry · May 2008

Bob Holo wrote:

Philip - It just occurred to me that I hijacked your thread. I'm sorry about that, man - I hope you got the information you needed. As you can no doubt tell, this is an oft discussed topic. Welcome to the forum.

Phillip, I apologize for the same as I contributed a great deal in driving this off topic...I went way off topic with the old lady/Mercedes story eh?

MichaelHorowitz · May 2008

Well, back to hijacking thread....I'd thought I'd add this.

As Enrique, Jeff, and other have pointed out, the higher bridges usually move the tone more in the direction of a banjo like plunk, whereas lower bridges allow the top to breath a bit more which yields a somewhat mellower, modern tone. I feel that it's a good idea to get both setups to work on your guitar. Find a good bridge for a higher action, light string setup, and then another bridge for a lower action heavy string setup. Some guitars perform dramatically better with one over the other. While others will do either equally well. In general, Favinos seem to like higher action and Selmers like lower action. But some guitars will surprise you...

When I want a more "old school" sound like you hear from Tchan Tchou, Moreno, Baro Ferret, etc....I go with high action and light strings. It's generally more nasal and wet with a very, very fast and aggressive attack and almost no sustain. On some guitars I also get more brightness this way...but not always.

If I want a more modern sound like Bireli, Stochelo, etc, I go with the heavier strings and lower action. It usually brings out more low end and mids and is drier. I try not to go too low though...I like a pretty clean sound with only a little buzz. Sort of like Stochelo....you really have to do a lot of experiment to find the sweet spot were you get nice playability and tone. Can take months of work!

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