Busato Partie

MichaelHorowitz

Folks have been asking a lot of questions about the new Dupont Busatos. Here are some photos which show all of them together, along with a vintage 40s Busato. I think this will illustrate the accuracy of these copies. They are just gorgeous and the sound of them is just astounding. Dupont really captured what I consider the "Busato" sound: cracking highs, crunchy chords, lots of bark, and volume, volume, volume. A pure tone with few complex overtones.

Of the four, the Luxe models are the closest in appearance and sound to the original vintage Busatos. They are the loudest....and of the two I have, one is really just outstanding. It may be the best Dupont I've ever played, and that includes the much more expensive Vieille Reserve. Something went very, very right when Dupont built this particular one. It sounds very close to my vintage Busato.

The Royale is more sophisticated, warmer, with rounded highs, and fuller mids. The black ebony binding is stunning! Still very loud, but again, the Luxe takes the prize for ass kicking volume.

The Standard has the fullest midrange of the bunch and is on par volume wise with the Royale. And the mahogany back and sides with satin finish is really striking! Great way to showcase the beauty of the wood.

In the group photo the guitars are (L to R):

Royale, Luxe, 40s Busato, Luxe (the amazing one!), Standard

In the close ups the vintage Busato is on the right. The Luxe or Royale is on the left.

Joli Gadjo

Michael and others,
Considering the obvious esthetic difference, and the different woods between the standard and the luxe. How would you evaluate tone, sound volume, playability... differences ? Is it the same than between the MD100 and the MD50 ? Or the choice of woods etc... make them too different to compare. How would you argue if someone had to choose one or another ?
Thanks for you comments !
-JG

MichaelHorowitz

You definitely get a more complex and refined tone on the Luxe and Royale models. But volume wise, the Standard is on par, and may be even louder then the others. The Standard has a very nice tone, but a bit "simpler" in character. A phenomenal buy in my opinion...it plays so easy, sounds great, and doesn't cost a fortune.

Personally, I think the Busato style bombe is a lot better then the forced top you find on most Selmer copies these days. Forced top guitars sound weak compared to the power of the Busato bombe top. The only thing that is equal in power is a real pliage top (like the old Selmers.) The only guitar I know of made with a real pliage is the Dupont Vieille Reserve. The Dupont Busatos perform very similarly to the VR: huge volume, brilliant high end, easy response. If you consider the price difference (Dupont Busatos $3K-5K, Dupont VR $8K), then you'll see why the Busatos are a deal!

'm

Craig Bumgarner

Michael Horowitz wrote:

...... the Busato style bombe is a lot better then the forced top you find on most Selmer copies these days. The only thing that is equal in power is a real pliage top......
'm

What is a "bombe" top? How is it different than a "forced" (a flat top bent over braces and the shape of the sides) or "pliage" top (a forced top with an added distinct angular bend in the top parallel to the bridge)?

Thanks

Craig

MichaelHorowitz

What is a "bombe" top? How is it different than a "forced" (a flat top bent over braces and the shape of the sides) or "pliage" top (a forced top with an added distinct angular bend in the top parallel to the bridge)?

A bombe is just a domed top, be it forced or pliage.

The Busato bombe is a variation of a forced top...it's just much more extreme. The top arch is huge, and the apex of the arch sits right below the bridge (same with a pliage top.) But a standard forced top (which 98% of Gypsy guitars have because it's easier to make) has the apex of the top around the sound hole. So the bridge is sitting on the downward slope.

In my experience, the absolutely best sounding Selmer type guitars have the bridge sitting on the apex of the top. So that rules out conventional forced top guitars...only the Busatos (vintage or Dupont reissue) and Selmers (vintage or Dupont Vieille Reserve) have this feature. And boy can you hear the difference!



'm

frater

I think Michael Collins also does the "steam bent pliage" correctly... ( I also know some luthiers who use the cutter to "sign" the top internally to bend it later, a bit like they do with mandolins: but I don't know how correct this procedure may be!)

P.S.
Almost forgot: check this!

http://francelocaletv.com/index.php?v=2 ... o&s=cognac

Bob Holo

The pliage is a good mechanism for making the parts of the soundboard strong that you want to make strong - while leaving the compliant parts compliant and keeping your mass low for good power. It can be done other ways - like profiling the top - graduating the bracing etc... (Busato for example - as you mentioned, also that little cedar guitar you liked, and the Bucolo - and actually that Busato from NC which had an uncharacteristic profile to its soundboard and still was a killer rig etc..) Making a good soundboard is kind of like that project everyone had back in the 5th grade... build the bridge out of cardboard... remember? Everyone is given a sheet of cardboard and bottle of glue and the goal is to build the bridge as strong as possible with the given materials and the given weight budget. Actually... I remember that exercise vividly because my bridge held every book in the room and I was stoked to take it home and show my parents but Mr Carlson (usually a good teacher) took the books off and stepped in the middle of it... still didn't break so he bounced around on it till it did. Somehow he couldn't bear not breaking all the bridges. Funny how you remember certain things of childhood. In retrospect, I'm glad the SOB stepped on it and broke it because he didn't teach me much about building structures but he taught me lot about how to be an adult that day (or how not to be an adult) But I digress...

At any rate, I agree with you that the pliage is a good method for bringing up your strength to weight ratio under the bridge without stiffening the whole top up or making things too heavy. There are other ways to do it though I haven't seen many forced top Selmer style guitars that implemented these methods. No free lunch though - just running the soundboard through a thickness sander and gluing braces to it just won't get the job done. And... I definitely agree with you that doing the pliage (the right way) is more challenging than doing a forced top from a woodworking perspective - even when you take into account the other things you need to do in order to make a forced top function well - the pliage is still more difficult to execute... or more specifically it's less forgiving. You either do it perfect the first time or your soundboard becomes a wall hanging ;-) (and I have a few wall hangings to prove it)

Joli Gadjo

Dear all,
Since my good friend Jacques Mazolenni had recently received one of the Busatos from the last generation, I decided to visit him : I thought some of you might be interested to hear everything I had the chance to try.
I’ve been lucky enough to try a lot of things in the past (including at Francois Charles’s store), but never really paid close attention at the differences within the Busatos.

Jacques pulled out 3 of his old Busatos. If you go on his web page, I tried the 3 in the bottom of the Busato page : 2 40’s 14 frets and 1 50’s D hole 13.5 frets. First thing that caught my attention – and my fingers ! - is this famous bombe. These guitars really have a little tummy below the sound hole. If you are used to let your fingers loose close to the soundboard, you will feel the difference. The bombe makes this part of the body a little closer to the strings, and virtually the bridge lower as well.
The sound is outstanding. I had a preference for one of them. But overall, comparing to the older Selmer I tried, the sound is very “round” and warm (think Martin vs Gibson). If you have played Favino and Selmer, I’d say it is not as soft, delicate and warm as a Favino, and not as bright and sometime aggressive as a Selmer. I suppose it doesn’t cut through as much as a Selmer. But still it has a lot of punch. Some could say you get the best of both worlds.
Like most of the vintage guitars, they respond very, very well. It is quite easy to modulate how much volume you want to get out of it.
How comfortable do they play ? Difficult to say… I am used to my Patenotte, that many folks find having a thick neck… I’d say they’re very comfortable, I didn’t even think about it. The scale is the only big difference, but you get used to it. Also like most vintage, they weight 10 grams at most… Those are really light.

Then I tried the new one. Favino Luxe by Dupont : 3 piece neck, Rosewood… Nothing to say, as Michael pointed out, they’re perfect clones. Dupont really got that Bombe right, and most of the common characteristics I found in the old ones (they’re all different, Dupont built them mostly based on Romane’s own guitar). Physically and technically, they’re really like the old ones, except the nice finish and the “young” look. They play and sound like a new guitars of course, but otherwise it’s all there. Tone, sound, texture, volume.. it’s definitely not a Dupont MD-xx with a bombe look and “Busato” on the headstock. It has the personality and the temper of a Busato already. Has a good bite and is very responsive. I like very much a guitar that can follow you if you want to step forward when you play, and it does. It’s a good thing that these guitars are now resurrected on the market, and that a great guitar maker like Dupont stand up and shows new tricks and skills.
Don’t get me wrong here. I didn’t say the Busatos are now the new MDxx. If I could afford it, and had enough time to play them all, I’d get both. They’re just different guitars, different characteristics for different taste.

Finally, I should say I also tried the Gypsy Mystery, which is a “I-don’t-know-what-it-is” guitar. It’s too bad it doesn’t have a brand name because it lowers its value. Very round, rich and deep, kinda like Favinos. So they don’t bark as loud, but mostly roar. I almost left with it. Just a great guitar with an underestimated price. Doesn't even feel like it's 50 years old.

Before I left with nothing but frustrations, I played again the black Shelley Park Encore, which really stands up high amongst the MD-100 and other high ends. Like comfort food, this is a comfort guitar. Nice to have such a thin neck, and a very comfortable fretboard, great construction. Tone isn’t harsh here, it is just delightful and beautiful to your ears. A great guitar maker we should be proud to have on this continent.

All that to say, that after several months of G. A. S. rehab, I think I am over my Gear Acquisition Syndrome.... until I get a Busato.

MichaelHorowitz

Thanks for the review!

[quote="Joli Gadjo"] But overall, comparing to the older Selmer I tried, the sound is very “round” and warm (think Martin vs Gibson). If you have played Favino and Selmer, I’d say it is not as soft, delicate and warm as a Favino, and not as bright and sometime aggressive as a Selmer. I suppose it doesn’t cut through as much as a Selmer. But still it has a lot of punch. [/quote]

Interesting....I've had numerous Busatos here and a 40s Selmer as well. I had the exact opposite impression. The Selmer was the most tonally complex but not as aggressive. Favinos and Busatos were generally louder and aggressive, with Favinos being somewhat nasal and Busatos being very bright and dry. They're all different of course...but generally these stereotypes seemed to hold up well. Above all, the Busatos seem to be very clear in tone without the odd harmonic complexity of the Selmer. Not better or worse...just a different tone. Busatos are also ultra crunchy...chords sound like a whole bag of potato chips being crushed!

Maybe the Busatos you played at Jacques' were a bit unusual...just by looking at them not one seems to be a standard Grand Modele, so those might be different then the more commonly seen ones played by Romane, Stochelo, etc. He's got a few short scale ones and ones with non-standard woods and necks. So these seem to be a bit different which may explain the sound you're hearing.

[quote]Then I tried the new one. Favino Luxe by Dupont : 3 piece neck, Rosewood…
[/quote]

The new Busatos are the bomb(e)! A number of customers have reported that they are as good or better then the Vieille Reserve even though they cost much less and don't have the aged woods. The maple one we got in last week is just blowing my mind...so powerful and the maple looks unbelievable!

2008
Dupont BUSATO Royale Oval Hole Guitar (Maple Back and Sides) with
Hardshell Case

[quote]Before I left with nothing but frustrations, I played again the black Shelley Park Encore, which really stands up high amongst the MD-100 and other high ends. Like comfort food, this is a comfort guitar.[/quote]

Comfort guitar....I like that!

'm

Joli Gadjo

Maybe it's a question of interpretation and personnal taste here again. When I think aggressive, I think this very brigh and sharp, cut-through sound.
But I aggree that the Busatos had a more "crunchy" sound, which probably pushes the aggressivity towards the medium tones, and makes it a little more grainy (it's really hard to explain a sound !!).