Circle of Fifths?

RICK-D15

Can anyone explain what the "Circle of Fifths" is all about?
http://www.apassion4jazz.net/circle5.html

How does this rule apply to soloing, practically speaking? Lets take "Blues Claire" for instance:

C / C / C7 / C7 / F7 / F7 / C7 / C7 / G7 / G7 / C7 / C7 /

djangology

so that is up a fifth, then down a 4th, then down a 4th, and then up a 5th again. yes the circle of fifths applies to that. the circle contains the 4th and the 5th movements if you examine it.

to simplify, if your a beginner, think of the 7th chords rather as simple 1,3rd,5th major chords instead. so when you solo, use the triad of the chord that your in. you can add the 7th after you understand that the basic triad also fits into the seventh chords. for example: use the E maj triad over the E7 in minor swing.

so, over the first 4 bars use the C triad, then move to the F triad, then back to C, then to G, then back to C again.

you probably know this stuff already... sorry. with movements like this, I think the key is learning how to follow the changes by either muscle memory or memorized licks/patterns. it takes time and experience to develop this and its not something easily teachable except by starting with the example I gave above and gradually adding complexity.

playing over stuff like this is something I still have great trouble doing.

nwilkins

Rick - the circle of fifths is just something you can use to memorize how chords tpyically resolve in jazz.

The most common progression in jazz is called a ii-V-I the I is the tonic chord (the major chord whose root defines the key centre). So in the key of C the I chord is a Cmajor chord. In the key of C the V is a 7th chord whose root is the 5th note of the C major scale, so G7. The ii is a minor 7th chord whose root is the second note of the major scale, so in C it is Dmin7.

Anyway, you can see how the circle of 5ths helps - it shows you how these chords move. Note that if you read it counterclockwise from D you see D G C, which is a ii V I progression if you read it from G you see G C F which is a ii V I in F.

Also, that type of root movement can be taken back further along the circle - so you can approach a C chord by playing E7 A7 D7 G7.

Anyway as far as I know it is simply a memorization tool, and you can't "apply it" to songs other than using it to understand why some chord progressions sound good.

Jack

[quote="nwilkins"]

Also, that type of root movement can be taken back further along the circle - so you can approach a C chord by playing E7 A7 D7 G7.

Anyway as far as I know it is simply a memorization tool, and you can't "apply it" to songs other than using it to understand why some chord progressions sound good.[/quote]

Just to add to that first bit, you'll be thinking of it as E7 is the V of A, A7 is the V of D, D7 is the V of G, etc. I disagree, though, about it being simply a memorization tool. It can come in very handy for some things-extended introductions come to mind. To wit: using the above example of approaching a C chord, if you know that the circle of fifths motion is E7 A7 D7 G7, then add some tritone substitution, you can craft an intro to Blues Clair, or All of Me, or whatever, using something as simple as E7 Eb7 D7 Db7. If you're familiar with the idea of playing diminished runs over 7 chords, you could play a basic idea like this over the E7:

----------------------------------------------
-----------------6----------------------------
------------7--------------------------------
-6----9--------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------

Then just shift down a half step for the Eb7, another half step for the D7, then one more for the Db7 (or you could just hit the G7 chord-the chord that was replaced in the tritone sub with the Db7), and you're all set up for that first C. Thanks, circle of fifths!

Best,
Jack.

nwilkins

Jack,

I don't see where you show it is not simply a memorization tool - if you memorize the order of it then what else do you need it for?

E7 A7 D7 G7 can also be thought of as a III VI II V in C - the point is that if you have memorized the circle of fifths then you don't need to bother thinking about these chords because you will know that they resolve to each other in that order.

RICK-D15

Thanks for your responses. For some reason I thought it had to do with soloing, but looking again at the diagram I can see it doesn't.

djangology

yeah, the circle has little to do with soloing. At its advanced levels, it has more in common with figuring out diatonic harmony of chords. Therefore, if you solo with an arpeggiated method, then I guess that it could be useful in some ways.

Buy a book called "The Chord Wheel: The ultimate tool for all musicians", written by Jim Fleser

Jack

nwilkins wrote:

Jack,

I don't see where you show it is not simply a memorization tool - if you memorize the order of it then what else do you need it for?

E7 A7 D7 G7 can also be thought of as a III VI II V in C - the point is that if you have memorized the circle of fifths then you don't need to bother thinking about these chords because you will know that they resolve to each other in that order.

I can see your point, but I guess when I think of it as just something to memorize, I feel like it's not something that can be used creatively. Granted, it's a pretty simple way of using it (the intro idea), and the above example isn't the best, but it seems useful to me as a way to 'apply' it. But I'd agree (now that I've gone back to look at the initial post) it's not going to do much for solos.

Best,
Jack.

mitch251

I have looked at this series of posts more than once wondering why
the poor circle of 5ths was getting beat up so bad.
I guess I was waiting for someone else to come to its rescue.

A couple of points

1. No matter what you think it does or doesnt do you I think it wise understand how it works.

2. Though it might not always work this way it can function
as a road map in songs or parts of songs that I may not know that well or at all. All in all I think it a valuble tool

Thanks Tom

lukejazz

Wait, wait! There's more!!

You can also use the cycle to do some great learning.

Try playing the cycle on one string and you will quickly become familiar with where all the notes are. Just focus on one string per week - practice it a couple of times a day and you'll start to feel really confident about where everything is. You'll need to "say it and play it" (actually say the names of the notes out loud as you play them) to get maximum results.

Another cool learning techinique is to learn licks through the cycle. Got a favorite ii-V lick? Practice it in each key using the cycle in time without stopping and you'll absolutely OWN that lick whenever you want to use it.

Works much better than just learning things up and down the neck sequentially or in just one or two keys.