Learning and playing by ear?

Buco · May 2009

Mark DS wrote:

Is this just a ridiculous task to set out on for learning gypsy jazz? Am I eventually going to have to sit down and go through all the scales, arpeggios, and theory? Do players who grew up learning this music like Stochelo, Angelo, et al have theory backgrounds or are they just playing?

Pretty much every reply had a great advice. However I disagree in one aspect that's being repeated not only in this thread but inside GJ circles in general and that is the opinion that these guys don't know theory, or at least that's what I hear. Recently I myself took on taking lessons with this jazz guy and one of his favorite things to say is f*** names, learn notes and shapes and know when and where to use them. I think it's clear as day that all our favorite GJ guys know above very well regardless whether they learned it in the class while teacher was instructing them to play something from the book or they sat around and jammed for hours teaching each other what they know. I believe they know theory inside out maybe just not terminology in the classical sense and reading music from sheets and history of how it all came to be and what have you. I mean Django could not or could barely read and write but I think it's obvious that he was very versed in theory and understood scale shapes, subs etc besides his unique tools tricks and patterns that he used throughout his improvising and soloing. It's also obvious that he played by ear a lot but I doubt that you can get that good by just playing "by ear" without learning theory and then everything somehow just comes to you. There is a book I love, "Zen Guitar" where one of the things he said is something along these lines: "to be able to just "play" you need to work and study hard and earn a black belt and then work even harder until your belt frails to the point where it becomes white". That I think is the point Django reached and to us it all flows beautifully and seems like all he does is play by ear but I bet you there is a lot of organized practice and hard work in figuring out his art through the same set of scales and arps etc that we're going through. I hope I'm getting my point across, short way of saying this is if somebody can talk about what they're playing, explain it in a way thought in schools and write it down on a sheet of music vs somebody who can just play the same thing but also understand it and use it in the same way like the first person, that does not mean that latter person does not know theory.

To add to arsenal that I think one should know in this style is harmonic minor. I'm originally from Balkan lands and there is a lot of that sound in traditional gypsy music allbeit not jazzy. Otherwise everything said so far should be taken in consideration when trying to get better, actually I'll try to remember it.
Bon swing!

pinkgary · May 2009

I love that Zen guitar book too. I saw it when browsing a book shop, saw the title, & thought "Pah, way to jump on the bandwagon. I bet that book is shit", picked it up & opened it to a random page, just wanting to scoff at it really. I read it, & found that i agreed totally with what it said, flicked to another page, same thing. I spent about 10 mins in that book shop trying to find something i disagreed with or thought was stupid, but every page i read, i was thinking yeah, that's good advice. Until i resigned myself to the fact that it was a great book with a stupid title, & i was gonna have to buy it there & then & go home & read the whole thing.. Which i did, & now i recommend it to my pupils all the time.

AJATango · May 2009

I think it's funny that people think it's a choice. ear is necessary to be a good musician theory is necessary to be an educated one. Sure you can get by but, why bother doing it half assed? Why cut corners and deprive yourself? if you want to make a commitment to your music be it hobby or pro, then make the commitment. Don't follow the equivalent of a one night stand with your music. Start a deep, loving, committed relationship and songs, solos, jamming, etc. will be the wonderful children you can birth.

So it might be a bit hard? Sure but, think about anything in your life you've done that was a pain in the butt to achieve but,when you got there, you felt amazing because, you toughed it out. Music can be that rewarding and looking for short cuts in the long run just delays you. Of course you can play and keep moving ahead. the point is don't pick one or the other. just make a commitment with immediate, short, medium and long term goals.

Music is a life commitment unless you're 90 or a 100 ears old you've got the time to do it right and do it in depth. Make love to your music, develop an intimacy with it. heck learn the kama sutra of guitar!

Don't settle for hamburger when you can give yourself the gift of caviar.

CalebFSU · May 2009

AJATango! Great way to put it.

Buco · May 2009

pinkgary wrote:

I love that Zen guitar book too.

I found out about it from reading "Practicing" by Glen Kurtz. Another really cool book, non-fictional novel by a guy who was a classical guitar prodigy as a child but somehow fell apart along the way. Great read about ones expectations, struggle to get where you wanna be or you think you belong, accepting life realities, mistakes made along the way and finally returning to music for a sake of music.