"Skip Peterson & The Niglos"

trumbology · July 2005

Ted G. recently mentioned, quite entertainingly, this hypothetical Hot Club Band

.

I'm in search of real-life counterparts to this group and it's mate, "The Quintet of the Hot Club of the Hanger Lane Gyratory System."

Here's my question: which self-released/obscure records do you all find ABOVE average or indespensible?

I'll try to draw some boundaries:

--Not an A-list American or European player (duh)
--Player/Group doesn't tour or plays only regionally for the most part
--More or less 'underground'

Also, what's strong about the record:

--arrangements?
--a soloist?
--a unique sound due to instrumentation/unusual repetoire?
--great vocals?

So even if the "lead Django" is only an average picker, maybe the totality of the package puts it into heavy rotation on your cd player.

It doesn't have to be in the HCQ instrumentation; it only need involve strings and swing. Links to soundclips encouraged.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Neil H.
Raleigh, NC

ramsezaz · July 2005

As far as I am concerne it the French Band "Les Pommes de Ma Douche" CD : "Y va tomber des cordes". They start to get well known so I don't know it this can be called "Underground".

What I love in this album is the arrangements. For example they have a Douce Ambience played quite slow with the head played by the Double bass. Quite unusual.

Cuimean · July 2005

Here are a few:

Samarabalouf - Interesting French band. Two guitars & upright bass, with occasional bouzouki and/or accordion. Not the greatest solos you've ever heard, but they get high marks for writing almost all of their own material. Here's a link to some tunes:
http://tinyurl.com/ddgwz

De Cauter Family - I've just recently been turned on to their stuff (thanks to Ando and Scot), and it's fantastic. Koen De Cauter is hardly obscure, but I've noticed he isn't discussed here too often. I've heard recordings by his band Les P'tits Belges, the recent version of the Waso Quartet (with Tcha Limberger), and two recordings he did with his family, who are all excellent musicians (especially Dajo, the bassist). There's something about this musical family that reminds me of Monk, Count Basie, and Jan Johansson; perhaps it's an economy of notes coupled with a sense of playfulness and exploration. I dunno. Here's the family website:
http://www.decauterfam.be/

Marie Kiss la Joue - French singer. The backing band on her first album was the Haute Club de Bretagne. Lovely tunes, nice vocals, and some great playing. Sound samples can be heard here:
http://tinyurl.com/cmqlb

Roland Becker - French sax player. Okay, this is venturing pretty far afield from the topic at hand, but some folks here might enjoy some of his music. He engages in a bit of retro science fiction by wondering what musette might have sounded like had the Breton people migrated to Paris instead of the Auvergne. Great melodies, interesting rhythms, and some vaguely Hot Club-esque sounds. Here's his site:
http://www.rolandbecker.com/

Ando · July 2005

Cool topic. I look forward to the posts.

I'll say Tony Green, from New Orleans. He avoids the Stochelo "school" and therefore doesn't get on many A-lists; he plays locally in two locations (Nola and the Veneto in Italy); and he doesn't get discussed much at all.

I agree with Michael Dregni that Tony's 1996 CD "Gypsy Jazz" is a classic. Its repertoire is highly varied, the arrangements are almost totally unique, and the transparency of the recording makes it very enjoyable. Tony's solos are, again, unique. Like Django, he's a colorist. There's not a ton of flash, even when tempi get very fast -- but he's very adept at building excitement within clearly-structured choruses, and he uses harmonics for fireworks in a way that sounds very gypsy. He's released several other live CD's (recorded in interesting locations), and they're also very good.

I've noticed that his playing has, since 1996, become more adventurous and edgy, more tolerant of dissonance. Plus he's getting more ambitious in terms of arrangements: he does a rollicking version of a Brahms Hungarian rhapsody, for example, along with a fado by Carlos Paredes, a tango, a bolero -- you name it. And he doesn't sound like anybody else.

http://www.tonygreen.net

And yes, he's a friend of mine, but listen to his music and tell me what I've said isn't true anyway.

Cheers,
Ando

Colin Perry · July 2005

Janet Klein's band is great, though not specifically gypsy jazz. She has Billy Steele and Tom Marion on guitars, both of them great players. Billy handles the Django stuff, and Tom plays in a Eddie Lang/Nick Lucas style. Great band, with interesting and obscure songs.

www.janetklein.com

dennis · July 2005

my vote goes to non-famous members of the rosenberg family (the dutch sinti : grunholz, rosenberg, corvers, schaefer, etc...)... some don't tour, some play locally, but they re all amazing

and there are so many of them.... my favorite is mozes rosenberg, stochelo's little brother, whom i believe is one of the most talented in the big family; he seems to be the one of the only ones whose style goes beyond the typical stochelo influence (although of course it is there) ... there's a lot of RnB (Benson) based licks in his playing.... the only recording so far is the one he did in feb with his famous bro... but i've seen many videos of him at samois (including a killer performance in 2000 back when he looked like michael jordan)....

anyway, he's only 21 too so i can't wait to see how his style will evolve.

------

another player that's really amazing is Rocky (i forget the last name and it's not garcia).... he doesn't tour or record because he is part of the same religious group as stochelo where public music performances are not encouraged. ..

he is young too and can play some REALLY mean bebop... angelo debarre was floored when he saw this kid play... his style is very modern but still very accessible .... has to be seen/heard to be believed....

------

of course, my buddies and brothers, ritary and herve gaguenetti (they're cousins) who are starting to make a name for themselves.... they have become very close friends, and i was fortunate enough to spend time with their family in France 2 months ago.... their family has german/alsacian origins (in some way related to dorado's family)

herve is an amazing rhythm guitar player and more importantly one of the most generous guys i've ever met in my entire life... (he gave me an original django 78 and during my entire stay in europe was the one of the only ones who would really go out of his way to make sure i had everything i need)

ritary is one of those rare musicians, like bireli, django, coltrane, who are constantly seeking to evolve (one of the things that is very lacking in this style)... he is constantly transcribing and learning from various musicians through recordings and videos (he has a MASSIVE collection of videos, he has every samois since the early 90s, his cousin herve brings a digital camera every year) and he has literally transcribed a bunch of solos from these videos.... anyway , his original influence was the dutch style, then recently moved on to bireli, and is now working on benson.... he's thinking of stopping the gypsy style for a while and pursuing mainstream american jazz... i'm about to send him a bunch of recordings of such musicians and i hope you'll make something out of it....

----------------------

finally , adrien moignard and sebastien giniaux who play together, are the most amazing duo i've EVER seen in my life.... the musicianship is very high, but the way they interact is in my opinion is unequalled and if i dare say unheard of in this style.... these guys are at the exact same level of musicianship and they play as if they were one, it's incredible.... at samois, they gave the most incredible performance i have ever witnessed in my life because of the interaction... words cannot describe it.... luckily.... LUCKILY.... ben wood from NY (the man with a 7 string dell arte haha) lent me his digital camera at samois and i followed these guys around... and got hte BEST possible spot to film them on sunday night (even better spot than the new "django legacy" documentary crew -haha) ... so i got EVERYTHING on camera...

robin katz , roberto rosenman and others were witness to my bireli-like, paganiniesque filming skills (the lightning speed at which i'd change positions to follow the trade fours, how i'd flawlessly predict when a cool thing was about to happen from either guitarist and therefore capture it) to a point where adrien tried to turn away so he could hide his licks from me, but i was too quick for him....HAHA

those bastards can be sure i'll be stealing their ideas (as soon as i get the tape from ben)

Barengero · July 2005

TedGottsegen wrote:

Gallo Weiss is fits all of these catagories. He was a mentor to Matcho Winterstein, and recorded one LP with Chella Weiss (RIP) in the early 1980's. He is starting to make a comeback.

Hi Ted,

I agree completely. The LP "Maro Drom" with Chela Weiss was nice, but Gallos latest recordings are way better. They have interesting arrangements and an extended repertoire. In 2003 he recorded a demo with the following tracks:

1) All the tings you are
2) Djangology
3) Valse for Nicky (Galliano)
4) Oblivion (Piazzola)
5) Artillerie Lourde
6) Indifferénce

His 2004 Album is a live recording ("09.12.2004"):

1. Dream of you
2. Sweet Georgia Brown
3. Oblivion
4. Samba en Prélude (de Moraes)
5. Valse for Nicky
6. Jour de juillet (P. Winterstein)
7. Bonsoir M. Bach (Martin Weiss)
8. Hommage a Hojok (Häns´che Weiss)
9. Vuelvo al sur (Piazolla)
10. Et maintenent
11. Swing for JInny (P. Winterstein)
12. Laurita (Richard Galliano)
13. Les deux guitares

A really fine an widely "unknown" guitar player.

Best,

Barengero

Barengero · July 2005

My vote goes to another Guitarist from Alsace: Mayo Hubert

His playing is fine, but it is not outstanding. What I like in his CD´s is the singing. I like the deep and dark voice of Joseph Reinhardt singing songs of Sacha Distel, Henri Salvador, tunes in romanes language and so on.

That said, I am at the second aspect why this is my favourite "underdog": The extended repertoire. On the two Solo CD there are many fine tunes that were completely new to me.

CDs:
Swing Mayo - Jazz Guitar
Mayo Jazz - O Djiben

Best,
Barengero

trumbology · July 2005

My first contribution to the topic at hand would be a recommendation of Dave Biller's "Leroy's Swing." Stu B., whose wisdom I defer to, wasn't crazy about the rhythm section's groove on this disc. To my less experienced ear, the rhythm section doesn't detract from Biller's playing, and the disc spins fairly often in my hovel. (Please excuse my repeated shilling for this disc).

Going much, much farther afileld (I've though about starting a second topic that's sort of a "trainspotting" bits of Django in otherwise non-gypsy jazz musics)...okay I'm going to do that. What I was about to write about is just too far afield for this thread!

Wish I had more to share. Thanks to all the posters for "spread-en' da knowledge and the love, yo!"

(My god, what just took possession of me?)

I'm warming up my credit card now.

Neil H.

kimmo · July 2005

Hi Dennis, it was nice to meet you in Samois and I hope it wasn't the last time.

dennis wrote:

finally , adrien moignard and sebastien giniaux who play together, are the most amazing duo i've EVER seen in my life.... the musicianship is very high, but the way they interact is in my opinion is unequalled and if i dare say unheard of in this style.... these guys are at the exact same level of musicianship and they play as if they were one, it's incredible.... at samois, they gave the most incredible performance i have ever witnessed in my life because of the interaction... words cannot describe it....

Fully agree! The day I visited the Samoreux campsite I caught them playing stuff like Donna Lee, Made In France etc. Unbelievable interaction! Then Matcho Winterstein joined them for a couple of tunes and I kept wondering why don't I have to pay for tickets for this amazing show. I had heard Sebastien many times before in the previous years, often with some accordionist - and he's always been excellent. This was the first time I heard him play with Adrien, and it was just awesome.

sidenote: Matcho Winterstein tried to start Jobim's Wave (in G) with them and later a couple of times with other players, but he never got to play it because nobody knew the tune.

dennis wrote:

robin katz , roberto rosenman and others were witness to my bireli-like, paganiniesque filming skills (the lightning speed at which i'd change positions to follow the trade fours, how i'd flawlessly predict when a cool thing was about to happen from either guitarist and therefore capture it) to a point where adrien tried to turn away so he could hide his licks from me, but i was too quick for him....HAHA

Reminds me of the stories from the early 1900s New Orleans in the book of Nats (Shapiro&Hentoff), where some bands would intentionally play wrong/badly, if they suspected that competitors could be watching; or they would hide their fingerings for instance with a covering blanket or turn their backs. Some refused to record, because they were convinced that others would steal their tunes and licks and - subsequently - also their gigs.

dennis wrote:

those bastards can be sure i'll be stealing their ideas (as soon as i get the tape from ben)

And next year in Samois I'll seriously bribe you to share your catch.

Clay · September 2005

finally , adrien moignard and sebastien giniaux who play together, are the most amazing duo i've EVER seen in my life.... the musicianship is very high, but the way they interact is in my opinion is unequalled and if i dare say unheard of in this style.... these guys are at the exact same level of musicianship and they play as if they were one, it's incredible.... at samois, they gave the most incredible performance i have ever witnessed in my life because of the interaction... words cannot describe it....

i couldnt agree more (aside from the duo of boulou and elios). That concert was amazing , i have the video from ben and its amazing , adriens playing is so mature its fairly absurd.

I definatly have alot to learn from the both of them , but now i have plenty of material to work with.