Gypsy Guitar Details...

JazzDawg

Maybe this info exists in many different posts, but I thought it would be nice if folks had a single area to use to compare Gypsy Jazz guitar info, including pics (headstock, neck front, back, profile, top (front, side view), Bridge, etc.,,) and dimensions.

I've searched and emailed many folks asking about such things, as most only give you a portion of that info, but the details like: nut width, scale length, setup info, whether the top is carved (slightly arched) or flat, neck angle, style, bridge height, and so on is more rare. Reviews that exists usually mimic the sales info, with little real info.

Of course, not having shops in my area that have GJ models to compare, makes it really a difficult proposition to decide on a model. I'd love to open a shop just to sell these types of guitars myself.

Yes, standard advice is helpful, like 'play one' and choose one that feels right for you - but how can you do that when you don't have any around to compare or the info? Ask for the info? Yes, done that and really find bits and pieces of info scattered about. Wouldn't it be useful for all levels of players to have a place to look at what folks are playing, and such valuable info? Hopefully, some of you feel the same and are willing to share the info. Being new, I don't understand what some folks mean about the sound being dry or wet. It would make more sense if I had a bit more to use for comparisons. So, shoot me down for being so stupid about these things, but if you can, post your guitar info, and maybe a short comment about why you chose it, and whether you are satisfied with it. (Probably not though as we guitarist are always searching for the 'holy grail' of guitars, right!?!)

I'm saving to buy a GJ guitar, and my worst fear is making the wrong choice. I will greatly appreciate any info submitted. Thanks to all for sharing the info that is on this forum.

asd123321

If you are going to put any significant amount of money into this, you really need to try them out. Otherwise you could do what I did and get the Cigano which you wouldn't be risking much. You would be better off asking Michael Horowitz what to get at different price points than looking for a lot of specifications. What is needed is one person recording a bunch of different instruments at one session and just playing the same short few phrases and chords on each.

Dave

JazzDawg

Well, I understand what you are saying, but really it's more than just the specs I'm looking for in this post. I'd like to see some posts about the guitars folks use, and their impressions about if they got what they wanted in their purchase or not. For me, I don't see much talk about the tops of these guitars, though I've seen some posts that indicate one model has more of a 'real' gypsy sound due to having more of an arch in it, while others are flatter. I think that's an important consideration, probably mores than just price. Any thing over $500 is significant for most folks, and by the time you have the setup and fret level, and any other customization, even the Cigano GJ-10 is pushing up to the $600 -$800 range, which means that maybe it's not exactly such a good deal versus another.

Yes, by all means try them out - but there are no shops that carry these instruments in my area. So, for the benefit of not just myself, I'm sure others would be interested in some of those details. Neck width affects playability for some more than others, as does longer scale versus short scale. Even the wood construction is important - maple vs other wood. Bridge choices, tailpieces and other features would help me zero in on what's best for me in absence of a opportunity to play many of them.

I understand that folks have their personal favs, and I'm not out to knock anyone's choice, but just share the whys and 'now that I've got it - wish I'd got this instead' kinda feelings. For example, I really loved my Gibson Maple J-200, when I played it. As the years went on, I found that my friends' Taylor was more fun to play - it was smaller, and felt better in my small hands. Doesn't mean the j-200 isn't a great guitar - just means that after a while of playing it, I find myself playing my smaller J-40, which only cost me $60 bucks. I don't regret buying the J-200, and I still think it sounds better overall than my cheapie J-40, but it's more work to play. The J-200 has a slightly wider neck, and the J-40 is thinner with much lower action. The bracing on the J-200 is stiffer, and sounds better with heavier gauge strings, and really sings when using open tunings and open chord voices. It's a great recording rhythm guitar, whereas my J-60 hasn't even got half the tonal range of my 'blondie'. In jam sessions, my J-200 gets lost in the mix when soloing with guitars made of non-maple, even though it's brighter sounding. Both of the guitars have the same scale length 25 1/2"", but the neck is a thicker on the J-200, probably better suited for larger hands.

Now, maybe that's the kind of info that could help someone would find useful, and maybe its just me. If it's just me - sorry to have bothered with it, and I'll go back to picking through the posts and internet. I don't think any one person can make my purchase decision for me.
:oops:

Michael Bauer

It seems to me that with a $500 budget, you have two main choices: a new Cigano (There don't seem to be many used ones around.) or a used Gitane. I can't think of anything else that's going to fit you budget. I'd avoid Arias. The one I played was absolutely awful. I have played a d-hole Cigano and loved the sound and playability. It was a really nice guitar for the money. The oval hole Cigano I played didn't impress me at all, but I'm guessing it was an exception, since the general reviews of the Cigano'd have been very favorable.

Any Saga (Cigano or Gitane) you buy will have a skinny neck, which it sounds like you would like. The oval hole will have a narrower fingerboard and better access to the higher frets. Even though I liked the sound of the d-hole better, I think you should avoid them if wide necks are an issue for you.

If you get a good Cigano that needs no setup work, you will get a good deal, but to be honest, there are usually Gitanes available through the forum, many of which have already had upgraded bridges and other work. Most of them are available in the $400-600 range, and they'll usually include the case. Your probably not going to get a signature Gitane for that kind of money, so look for a good used oval hole (250, 255) at a price you can afford. I would emphsize playability over sound, because if you continue to play this music, you'll want a better guitar eventually anyway, and until you get the gypsy picking down, you won't get the best out of the guitar anyway. Try to get a used Gitane with a Josh Hegg bridge if you can find one. That one mod vastly improves the sound, although Josh's bridges usually leave you with higher action than a stock bridge. If you find one on the forum, talk to the owner before you buy. This is pretty much a Band of Brothers community, and most everyone will be very honest with you about their guitars, even if they are selling them

Good luck.

JazzDawg

Actually, I appreciate the responses, but I think I'm not being clear enough. I don't have a specific budget in mind for my purchase. I mentioned $500 as a thought that with today's economy, most folks new to the genre probably would like to carefully consider their options even at that level. I'm not expecting just info for myself as much as for the newbie community members. From my experience, owning a good quality guitar is a joy! I've bought enough guitars to know for me, anyway - I'd rather save and spend a bit more to get a better mid-range instrument than slowly build up to one. I know my direction is to keep playing this style, so it's not a passing interest. I'm comfortable playing my flat tops until I get the right opportunity to get a GJ guitar. I'm not playing professionally, so I can learn and wait for the right time. I'm not knocking anyone's choice - if I had a shop that stocked these types of guitars, it would ease the effort, and these forums help too.

I was hoping some folks wanted to share their impressions of the guitars they got, and have a single area would new folks could take a look at the various types of guitars out there in the hands of players. The specs and comments would act as an aid to selecting a guitar. I can see that the info is scattered about, and I'm finding what I need after a lot of searches, but it's OK, just thought there might be a better way.

So, the admin can delete this post, as it's not really going to add much.

Thanks to all for their time, comments, and posts. These forums are so helpful, and I'm glad to have found so many with similar interests.

jetblackbiovuac

I just bought guitar and was curious if its possible to add a strap to the guitar. Its a Saga Cigano GJ15 and I was curious if I can add one.

HotTinRoof

Talk about dragging a thread out from the past! I guess the original poster never found his GJ guitar. haha

Any strap toting GJers here? I haven't seen them myself but maybe I haven't been paying attention to such a thing.

JetBlack, shoot Michael Horowitz (head honcho here at Django Books) a private message.
http://www.djangobooks.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9

Archtop Eddy

You can put a strap button on the bottom of the guitar (bottom screw on the tailpiece) and tie the top of the strap to the headstock with a good string. In this way you don't need to screw in a strap button on the heel of the neck or the body. It also makes it easy to reverse the process later in case you want to remove the bottom strap button. AE

Archtop Eddy

...If you don't like the idea about tying a string to the headstock, you could always use an acoustic quick release system like one from Planet Wave. Under $10. You can find 'em in local music stores...

Jeff Moore

Jazz Dawg,
I just saw this thread. Your question is a big one, but no reason not to give a personal answer.
I've had or have lots of GJ guitars.
At $500 Michael Bowers answer is exactly right, but you're not trying to limit the $, which is important, cause all the best stuff is more $. I think people are naturally reluctant to talk about money, but I also think your question is just part of doing what we do regardless of $.

The best stuff I've had is two Dupont VRs, a 43 Busato Grand Modele, and a Jean Noel Lebreton - I recently bought from this site. I sold a VR and the Busato a while back, for other reasons than "greatness"; they were plenty great. I've played lots (though only a fraction) of the best stuff offered on this site, including a few minutes with Selmer 863. There are still lots of great makers (living and dead) whose guitars I've never played at all.
Of the guitars I've mentioned, all are great guitars. They're all capable of being "the one" for me or someone else. At this point though, the Lebreton is the best and cheapest "great" guitar I've had (for me). Can't afford 863! Also, I only keep one with thick and wide necks, but even with that caveat, there are enogh choices. Of course, my ears are just my ears, and even though a VR and the Lebreton don't sound much like each other, I think they're great.

There are also many makers whose guitars I've tried over and over who have never impressed me once, but for now I feel strongly that its not good manners to pass summary judgement on people who make guitars, whether they make 5 or 10,000.
The vintage guitars can of course be worth the huge price.
The great makers like Dupont have prices that I feel really do reflect their value. A Dupont at what ever price is a reasonable value mainly because they have such consistency. "Consistency" may sound boring, but to me there's nothing boring about a MD-50 or whatever.
Lebretons like mine (solid Brazilian, European top, etc...) are selling (at this moment) for a little less than $5000. I'm not hung up on Brazilian or European, but this guitar is "astonishing" to borrow a word from the description. My VR (after ? years) is also astonishing to me. I've never bought one, but I've also never played a MD-50 that disappointed me at all. They are often equal to the VR.
Having only played one Lebreton, I can't say much except the one I bought, I bought on Michael Horowitz"s recommendation and I think he was too modest in his praise. I was looking for something else and he just said something like "This is really special and really stands out". I'd moved from Seattle, so couldn't just run over and "try it out". I bought it on his recommendation.

I'm very very lucky to have been able to try out lots of great guitars. I think we're all lucky to have Michael and each other as a resource, and if you can at some point say to him. "I want the best thing you've got, you have a very good chance of getting a great guitar.
I recognize that most of us won't get that chance. I think that our condition (including me) is unjust. The system absolutely does not give out rewards based on anything rational or moral, but that's another thread.

What I've said is more process than "the" answer to your question. It kinda boils down to two things. 1. I don't have only one answer to what's great. 2. I've learned to trust Michael's evaluations.
That second one is pretty important. It's still best to "try it out first" but there is and has to be another way or most of us couldn't buy a guitar without using more money in travel than buying a guitar in the first place: which I've never done, cuz; I don't think I need to.
If I thought that I'd only ever get one chance at one great guitar, I suppose I'd have to try it out first, but that's not so likely, cause if I can once afford a great one, I can also sell it (at some loss) and save a little more and by another.
One more thing, I think the thread your after already exists - "Guitars, Strings, Picks, Amps, Pickups and Other Accessories" under "Gypsy Jazz Gear". Many, many people have been comparing the tiny details of these things there for many years.

Hope this helps