Original Selmer Finish

Gypton

Sorry if this has been answered before, I did try to search it-
What kind of finish was on the original Selmers? Looking at pictures, there's such a huge variation in colors of the old spruce tops- some have a deep red-orange tint like an old violin, and some are light yellow. I wonder what causes this- exposure to light? Oxidation?

frater

Nitrocellulose lacquer.

As for the tint, read here:

http://www.lutherie.net/details.html

Gypton

Yes, from what I gather its a combination of the lacquer changing color over time, and the spruce itself changing color- copious amounts of cigarette smoke may be a factor as well, making something like this: http://www.gypsyguitars.com/instrument- ... hp?id=1349

This vielle reserve made from aged spruce has that color already, as a new guitar:
http://www.gypsyguitars.com/instrument- ... hp?id=1269
However, this one may be made with a tint

Bob Holo

Yep, they're tinted. Romanian Spruce (picea abies from that area) gets a real suntan. Sitka & American picea do too - but the cinnamon tone of the traditional wood is unmistakable. Here's a picture to show you what I mean. You can see where the strap was. Insane, isn't it? I thought at first it was a tinted sealer, but it wasn't in the end grain on some chunks and then it's only on one side of pieces that have it... I shaved off a little of the tinted wood and put it under a microscope - couldn't see anything to indicate that it was a coating so it must be pure suntan. I should put a chunk in my varnish curing booth and leave it there through a few builds and see what happens to it. It would be cool to be able to pre-tan them but somehow nothing seems to quite do the job of pure grade-A natural sunlight over time. And it does take time. I've seen guys leave their guitars out in the sunshine... a dumb thing to do for so many reasons, but it doesn't seem to accelerate things all that much anyway because part of the equation is air... which goes through finish very very very slowly. Sun+age=surface oxidation.

So, I try not to tone any more than necessary for the same reason Paul states. I'm thinking of switching to more of an amber shellac for initial soundboard sealing just to warm up the look a little without adding too much color. As beautiful as this wood tans on the surface - it's ghastly white with a little yellow tint under the surface unless it's really really old... and even then... I have some from 1910 (you can guess why I bought it ;-) and it's still fairly white when fresh cut... instead of ghastly white with yellow it's more parchment with a little amber in it... but still pretty darned light. But as well as it tans - I just can't in good conscience put too much color on it... amberlac should give it about as much color as sitka at first without having it wind up looking like George Hamilton in a few years ;-)

Gypton

Bob-

On a side-note, something you may be interested in if you collect old wood is http://www.logsend.com/
They pull 19th century logs out of the river from the lumberjack days. The majority is pine, but they pull up some species of hardwoods and they told me a couple years ago they occasionally get a spruce log.
Usually the outside 2 inches is soaked but the inside is preserved, being kept away from light and oxygen for 100+ years. I actually built a fender tweed deluxe style amp cabinet with some of their pine, its very different from modern pine, alot denser, stronger and tighter-grained. The pressure does something to the wood too, the resins and pockets of sap tend to be britle and even crystallized.

Sorry to highjack my own thread. I'm not trying to advertise for them, I just think its cool how old a peice of wood you can find out there!

Bob Holo

No, that's fine - hijack away - that crystaline pitch you refer to is important structurally and for finish. It happens naturally in old wood as rosins eventually oxidize. If the wood is good but not all that old you can 'set the pitch' with heat. But its always nice to find really old wood. All things being equal, I still prefer it.