How long will it take?

JAMF

Hi Kimmo, thanks for jumping in here.

In your post, you said "I have had to modify/drop a LOT of my phrases (fingerings, rhythms, etc)."

Do you expect to add these "phrases" back to your repertoire as you get better at the rest technique? Or does it seem the rest technique precludes you from performing some phrases--not that it's impossible, but just harder?

Losing phrases is my biggest concern with the rest technique right now. I'm trying to "learn the language of jazz." This means learning phrases from as many sources as I can from Charlie Parker to Django to Grant Green.

And I'm not really concerned with becoming a jack of all genres and a master of none. That's for all the real serious cats on this board.

I'm just an enthusiast who tries to play and improve as much as I can after a full day of work and after the kids go to bed.

That said, I do plan to devote at least a year to the gypsy style and technique. That'll be once I have more time and once I've learned more about music in general--probably in 2 or 3 years.

MichaelHorowitz

JAMF wrote:

Do you expect to add these "phrases" back to your repertoire as you get better at the rest technique? Or does it seem the rest technique precludes you from performing some phrases--not that it's impossible, but just harder?

I had the same question when I was learning the Gypsy Picking technique. I always figured that I'd use my old free stroke technique for some stuff. Bebop lines, Bird, Wes, etc. But I stuck with the rest strokes and, with some modifications of left hand fingerings, have been able to play nearly everything I used to play with free strokes. Actually, it sounds much better this way. One thing I noticed is that Wes lines work way better with rest strokes. I think it's because he was basically doing rest strokes with his thumb. I saw a video once, looked like it followed the downstroke rule of Gypsy Picking.

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kimmo

JAMF wrote:

In your post, you said "I have had to modify/drop a LOT of my phrases (fingerings, rhythms, etc)."

Do you expect to add these "phrases" back to your repertoire as you get better at the rest technique? Or does it seem the rest technique precludes you from performing some phrases--not that it's impossible, but just harder?

Losing phrases is my biggest concern with the rest technique right now. I'm trying to "learn the language of jazz." This means learning phrases from as many sources as I can from Charlie Parker to Django to Grant Green.

It appears Michael was faster:

Michael Horowitz wrote:

I always figured that I'd use my old free stroke technique for some stuff. Bebop lines, Bird, Wes, etc. But I stuck with the rest strokes and, with some modifications of left hand fingerings, have been able to play nearly everything I used to play with free strokes. Actually, it sounds much better this way.

My thougths exactly! At first many phrases felt impossible, but I'm now really starting to see the possibilities; so when I said "modify my phrases" that can be read as "modify left hand fingerings of my phrases". Simply put the key is to move more horizontally in the fingerboard. In addition to Michael's indispensable book, Dennis' Django-transcriptions (with carefully figured fingerings in tab) have provided me invaluable help - and there, too, I first thought I could go half way and use my own fingerings, which surely has cost me months of slow progress.

As I said before, I can only speak for myself: for me the Gypsy picking has definitely been the right decision - it would be so only for the improved consistency, but in addition I have gained tons of other benefits.

kimmo

JAMF

Michael, it's funny you mention the parallels with Wes' playing. I was watching a Wes video and I had a similar thought: "Good grief, he plays better than I ever will, and he's just thumbing the whole thing, all downstrokes."

Kimmo, it's nice to hear from someone in the earlier stages of learning. It's also good to know you're seeing big benefits already.

Makes want to move up my timeline for learning this stuff in earnest.

campfire

kimmo,

Nice website! I went and visited it after hearing your kind words about seeing me in Samois last year. I definitely remember you from your picture, though I had forgotten your name. It seems you are doing quite well, and I look forward to playing with you this summer at Samoreau, if we both can make it!

Stevo and JAMF,

Finally! Something I can REALLY relate to. I can say from experience that there is no way spending time on the gypsy picking method will have any detrimental effects on your playing. In fact, quite the opposite. Let me explain. I already had MANY years of jazz guitar experience before I got into GJ and Django. I already had decent chops, and lots of vocabulary on electric archtop. Most of my technique involved the left hand and lots of slurring, hammer-ons, and pull-offs. This worked well for me in the genre I was in. I thought playing GJ would be a piece of cake, until I sat down and tried to do it for the first time on an acoustic Selmer. DOH! WRONG!!! In the past 2 years I have been struggling with picking in the proper GJ discipline and its rewards are amazing! It has improved ALL my playing, and my straight=ahead/bebop playing has never been better. Not to mention, I think the biggest benefit has been learning how to play "le pompe." Playing and studying gypsy rhythm has been a complete joy, and has even improved my single-note soloing immensely. It's all in learning to RELAX and have a flexible wrist. I realize that now, and it's all from learning, listening, studying, and practicing this music. Now, I'm developing a whole new vocabulary of music as well as technique. Michael's (Horowitz) books have been so helpful, as well as Colin's. Going to Samois and experiencing it first hand was a real ear and eye opener. I could just go on and on about the positive reasons to pursue the proper GJ technique, but I will just say that there is NO way it can hurt your playing, and a thousand ways for it to help. The longest journey begins with but a single step. Good Luck!

Larry Camp