"Swing 85" / "Milko" the same?

TollundmandenTollundmanden DenmarkNew
edited February 2010 in Repertoire Posts: 34
I was listening to a Moreno recording called "Milko" and wanted to find some sheet music for it.

But then I came across Titi Winterstein's "Swing 85" and the two songs sounded very similar.

The theme is identical and the grid sounds the same, except that Moreno omits some bars in B section.

Is it the same, and is it called Milko or Swing 85.

Titi Wintersteins "Milko" doesn't sound a bit like the Moreno version.


  • JackJack western Massachusetts✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,748
    This is from the UK forum, six years ago, when I asked the same question:

    The tune Milko was written by Titi Winterstein. The tune Swing 85 was also written by him (or maybe by Lulu Reinhardt - in any case it was written by the Titi Winterstein Quintett). They were both recorded on the same Titi Winterstein Quintett record (Djinee tu Kowa Ziro) - one is track four and the other is track six. The A section chord progressions are essentially the same, but Milko has a shorter B section of 12 bars.

    When Moreno and Colin Cosimini play Milko they do play over the Milko chord progression (ie 12 bar bridge). However, they both use the head of Swing 85 when playing the A section.

    If it helps any, Christophe Lartilleux also has a chart for Swing 85 on his site - it fits the chord progression I gave above and gives the original Swing 85 head (ie what Moreno and Colin play for Milko).

    I have a recording of Stochelo and Jimmy playing Milko and they are using a head that is similar to the Swing 85, though not exactly the same.

    Maybe since the original Milko didn't really have a recognizable head (there is just a long slow violin intro and then improvising) people have just been playing whatever works over it, and of course Swing 85 was an obvious choice.

    Of course, if that's the case, then why didn't Swing 85 just become the song everyone plays (instead of using the Milko bridge)? Perhaps the two were conflated over time, and the Swing 85 melody just became the recognised head for Milko?

    Hope that helps!
  • TollundmandenTollundmanden DenmarkNew
    Posts: 34
    Thanks a lot for the extensive answer!

    So very simplified; if you play a 12 bar bridge it's Milko and if you play a 16 bar bridge it's Swing 85?
  • JackJack western Massachusetts✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,748
    Basically, yeah. We play a 16 bar bridge but just call it Milko because there are already a million tunes with Swing XX as a title...
  • BonesBones Moderator
    Posts: 3,277
    Anyone have a lead sheet?

  • JackJack western Massachusetts✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,748
  • BonesBones Moderator
    Posts: 3,277
    Sweet, thanks Jack!
  • redbluesredblues ✭✭
    Posts: 456
    Well noticed

    I have the same question regarding Moreno's 'Hanchie Swing' from Le Fils du Vent album and 'The World is waiting for the Sunrise'. Cosimini says Hanchie Swing is a Moreno composition, They sound extremely alike, I don't think Moreno would win a court case on it.
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