Rattle down low - Do I need a new nut?

Jazzaferri · April 2010

Having watched a master luthier solve a fret buzz with no straight edge except the strings and a slip of emery cloth I suspect that there are different techniques that will work.

Incidentally for those who are into the straight edge method if one is concerned about a few thousandths of an inch then make sure that the straight edge is machined to that tolerance. Most aren't.

As to how accurate the eye of a great craftsman is I have watched a marine cabinet maker cut a complex tapered shape out of teak freehand on a band saw with only a few pencil marks. The fitline once done was razor thin. :shock:

Frets are usually levelled on an untensioned neck. The neck takes on a shape once under tension. I can understand a relevelling on an inexpensive guitar but on anything over $1,000...... my mind boggles

Jeff Moore · April 2010

Jazzaferri, all your caveats are good.

My fretwork is fraction of the quality the pros get.
I'm not really pitching a gospel of how to's, but the value and possibility of level frets.
It's fun to talk about guitars.

I can visualize what levelling frets means--but how does a levelling of frets balance out against relief in the fretboard?

Again, this is a non peer reviewed and a basement mechanics answer:
I don't ever deal with one fret at a time. I do em all at once. I also think a flat fretboard is good enough. But whether you set up flat or with relief, you have to be able to tension the guitar exactly with the strings off as it was when the strings were on and then account for the amount of relief if any. I think truss rods tension only the neck and even then in a different way than strings tension the whole guitar, I don't own many truss rodded guitars and I don't use them to set the guitar up for fret jobs. I use clamps against a small stiff table to try and duplicate the way the strings tension the body. Nothing complicated but hard to describe.

Once I've got the guitar tensioned and the neck exactly (as possible) in the same shape it takes when the strings are on, I do all the frets al once with abrasives attached to a flat surface.
If you look at stew macs tools you'll kinda see what the pros use to do it. My way is crude in comparison.

I used to put relief in my necks (in my rock and roll days) by under tensioning the neck before leveling. This let's you take more off the middle frets if your using a flat surface with abrasive. BUT, I don't want to prescribe a method for building relief in the frets, cause I've been wrong before and don't even do it anymore. For sure if you level the fretboard or just the frets and want relief you'll have to carefully curve the neck exactly to the result you want unless your using curved abrasives, ha ha.

There's a cool website that helps grasp what vibrating strings are doing. I think it speaks against the efficacy of neck relief (a minority position). My go to guy (set up pro) likes to put .003"? relief in necks. His set ups work great, and the fret work is clean but my flat set ups work too if a bit uglier.

http://www.falstad.com/loadedstring/

I think the argument for neck relief is that the middle (lengthwise) of a vibrating string is where the maximum radius of movement is. But strings don't just move in simple arcs, they jump all over the place (spiraling oscillations, standing waves, you name it). Either way the amount of relief pros put in necks is pretty negligible. I'm not really arguing against neck relief, I just do most my own set ups and do em flat cause its easier and they satisfy my idea of playability and tone.

All my methods are just that, ways I came up with using common tools. They are not gospel even to me. My only goal here, if that, is to put in two cents for really level frets. I messed up a set up recently when I got the tension wrong. The pros do lots of necks with good tools and hopefully lots of experience. I do a few per decade with the stuff laying around from carpentry.

My Manouche Orchestra doesn't buzz anywhere, and my VR buzzes pretty much the same everywhere do its low action. Both seem maximized in different ways. They both have level frets, one relieved and one not.

Jazzaferri · April 2010

My Dunn has a 2.5mm action on the top and 3 mm on the bass side and no buzzes. I have watched Michael deal with fret buzzes a few times and I am in awe of his eye. He looks touches feels and knows what to do. Every time I have seen him deal with a buzz he uses his eye the strings and a bit of very fine abrasive paper or cloth.

He makes it look way more simple than I suspect it is. As to setting the frets and neck so the relief is right is well described in books on lutherie and takes up more space than is available in a thread.

Jeff Moore · April 2010

Constantine,
You can see if your nut is cut to low (didn't know Nomades don't have zero frets).

Press and hold the first fret on the E string, then press and repress the E string on the next (2nd) fret. See how much distance the string travels between the bottom of the string and that 2nd fret. The string probably travels about 1/2 or all of the width of the string. Not much

Now do the same thing on the 1st fret, E string. You of course won't have to hold anything down cause the nut is doing that. Just press the E on the 1st fret. How much travel between the bottom of the string and the 1st fret? If its less that the 2nd fret your nut is probably cut too low.

If that's the case shimming with a business card under the fret (like Bluesbop suggested) should work for now. It can be a bear if they glued that nut in. Go slow and don't glue it when you put it back. Let the strings hold it down and in place.