Downstrokes and upstrokes confusion.

Musette

Hello everybody, i'm getting into Jazz Manouche and been studying with both MH Gypsy Picking and Romanes L'Esprit Manouche ( i just started with both) and i have a question thats been confusing me a lot.
The rule is " always play a downstroke when changing strings in any direction and when ending phrases"
but should i play a downstroke before changing to the new string and then again a downstroke in the new string or just a downstroke on the new string????
To make my point clear i'll show you this example from Tchan Tchou's La Gitane:

Phrase 1:
-------------------------------------------2-5- <-------------(end of phrase)
----3-2-3-2-3-4-3--------------------3-------
----------------------5-3-2-------2-5---------
------------------------------5-4--------------
------------------------------------------------
....d-u-d-u-d-u-d---d-u-d--d-u-d-u-d--d-d

Which one is right????

Phrase 1 option #2:
-------------------------------------------2-5-- <-------------(end of phrase)
----3-2-3-2-3-4-3--------------------3-------
----------------------5-3-2-------2-5---------
------------------------------5-4--------------
------------------------------------------------
....d-u-d-u-d-u-d--d-u-d--d-d-d-d-d--d-d

Phrase 2:
----1-3-1-0--------------------------------------
--------------3-1---------------------------------
------------------3-2-----2---0-1-2-------------
-----------------------------3--------------------
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
....d-u-d-u--d-u-d-u----d-d-d-u-d

Which one is right??????????


Phrase 2 option #2:
----1-3-1-0--------------------------------------
--------------3-1---------------------------------
------------------3-2-----2---0-1-2-------------
-----------------------------3--------------------
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
...d--u-d-u-d-u-d-d---d--d-d-u-d
Could someone verify/correct thist upstroke/downstroke diagrams???

Thanks

crookedpinky

Isn't the "right" answer the version which suits you best. In other words which one matches ease of playing with best tone and volume production. I gave up with all the "rules" and try to play as many downstrokes as possible, definitely when changing strings, but where it means additional travel to get to the next string I would go for an upstroke. Does that make sense - it's a balance between speed and tone/volume.

Alan

BluesBop Harry

Hey buddy,
Come down to my place for a private lesson and I'll try to clear all your doubts.
For phrase 2 the first option looks better.

Musette

crookedpinky wrote:

Isn't the "right" answer the version which suits you best. In other words which one matches ease of playing with best tone and volume production. I gave up with all the "rules" and try to play as many downstrokes as possible, definitely when changing strings, but where it means additional travel to get to the next string I would go for an upstroke. Does that make sense - it's a balance between speed and tone/volume.

Alan

Thanks, i think you are right, theres nothing "wrong" in music, if you can play it and it feels ok, then you should just focus on making music and not being too worried about rules.
After all, music is very subjective.

Musette

Gracias Blues, estoy seguro de que pronto te contactaré, pero primero quiero ahorrar para conseguirme una guitarra estilo Selmer.
Saludos

dennis

u don't necessarily have to end on a downstroke, there are so many phrases that end with up strokes including your examples... it really depends , there are no rules, it depends on the accents,, u want to get ... u can also start phrases with upstrokes.... you seem to have missed that in the last 4 notes of your second phrase, where it would make more sense to startt with an upstroke on the note "A"

Jazzaferri

Remember ...rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obeissance of fools :shock:

crookedpinky

Well said Jazzaferri...........