maccaferris on a budget

Jeff Moore

You will certainly need a new bridge and nut (string guide). Reworking a Cigano might make sense but will take some work. Unless you've got parts and tools though, you'll be spending another 70 or considerably more bucks for parts.
I know you can buy a left handed bridge, and I'd guess you can buy a left handed nut or have Josh make one, but they may just require some filing and sanding to fit on your guitar. If your not familiar with doing these things you may still be lucky and everything fits, gives you the right intonation, and action. You can settle for less than perfect, shim the bridge if necessary etc, but it might be wrong for you to settle for compromises rather than wait and save for a good left handed guitar.
A guitar without a cutaway (or cutaway on the wrong side) would be hard for me cause I'm too used to having and needing 'the access to the high frets.

If your not wedded to good sound, and just need to practice; Frater's idea (Aria) would be an inexpensive way to go. I'd rather be getting the practice and development on just about any guitar with a cutaway while I saved money for the sound I want, rather than get a decent sound on a limited access guitar. I'm also not that fond of the long scale Ciganos though it would give you another two frets. They're good enough and bright but the short scale are a lot louder and therefore more responsive.

frater

Th (in)famous clip of Bireli playing an Aria:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyq0oMZs ... re=related

TimmyHawken

I know that it would be about triple your stated budget, but if you can do a little more saving, I think that the John Jorgenson model Gitanes are the best bang for your buck gypsy guitar that I've played before. I've had the opportunity to play three of them, they are really really good. Everytime I've played one it's given me serious thought of selling my Dupont MD50E and buying one. They really are that good IMO. Of course the Dupont is superior, but the JJ Gitanes are set up really nicely, have a great feel and even tonally are pretty darn good.

Also, I would reitterate everyone else's thoughts on the Cigano D-hole. I've had the Gitane 250 before and played many of the cheaper lines. The Ciganos definitely are better. I prefer the Ciganos even to the import Dell'Artes that I've played.

frater

I agree: the DG 300 has the best Selmer tone amongst Gitanes IMO. Probably the most appreciated Gitane by real manouche players...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QGFwHM9Ums

B25Gib

.....The Saga Gitane D-300 is a good guitar that has detailed workmanship, nice comfortable neck, easy playability, balanced volume up the neck, and good intonation. It also represents somewhat traditional "Selmer" sound to players! But it lacks in one major point in my opinion: "No Personality or Character"! I've played or listened to 4 or 5 D-300s over the last six years. It is good for beginners/intermediate players, but why pay up for a "step-above" entry level Gitanes when a used D-500 or redesigned GJ-15 is much cheaper, easier to play and has a "personality" for beginners!
.....That's the way I hear it!
.....Rocky

jorri

Thanks again for the input, i'm still on the lookout for a cheaper one but i think i will increase my budget and get a £350 one.

I'm a little confused by the term short scale though. A lot of the oval holes are 26 5/8 and the d-holes 25 1/2 which i guess is relatively short, but thats about as long as electric guitars ever get to in standard tuning. Do a lot of acoustics have this longer scale?

Klatu Verata Necktie

The only electric guitars I can think of which have a scale longer than 25 1/2 are the Jim Soloway models. Acoustics generally use 24 3/4 and 25 1/5 scales. Longer scales are typically reserved for baritone guitars. The only acoustics that I can think of that regularly use the 26 3/8 length are the Selmacs, and I think they can get away with it because they use thinner guage strings than other acoustics.

I was a little nervous the first time I played a longer scale Selmac; I thought I'd have a lot of trouble with the fingerings, but it was surprisingly comfortable. There was no real adjustment period, and I haven't had any trouble switching between Selmac, Gibson, or Fender scale lengths.

Jeff Moore

As Klatu is pointing out there are only two scales in Gypsy Jazz guitars.
Short scale = 25 1/2 (with a wider neck, at least on the asian made guitars)
Long scale = at least 26 3/8 (some a little longer still)
That's it. No mysteries.
The added inch of vibrating string on the long scale guitars invariably has an effect. The longer scale is nearly always brighter at least on the lower strings. Because there are only two scale lengths (short - long) in the world of Gypsy Jazz, the words "long scale" and "short scale" are all you need to know to know which length of guitar is being discussed.

Most lead players will play the long scale. Traditionally (in the Paris Hot Club) the backup section played only short scale guitars. This is still the accepted standard but less and less the case as so many players want to do both back up and lead, so the sales of long scale guitars far outpaces the short.
I'm more comfortable playing the wider shorter neck but do both constantly. I don't play with others at all in this style (I do it solo) and the usual belief that the long scale are louder (therefore suited to lead). I don't hear much difference in volume as a rule between the short and long though they put out their volume with a different emphasis of frequency. The short scale being more bassy.

I find there's no difference in my being able to play them (long and short) though there is definitely a different feel and sound. I've got medium sized hands by the way. I think hands can adapt to any scale length and neck width being made. The more you practice the quicker you'll adapt to variation in neck sizes as you try things out too. The hands begin to do the geometry on their own if you go back and forth between short and long. You'll be fine either scale length you choose.

Jorri, what guitar are you playing now?

jorri

Hi thanks for the carification.

At the moment the only guitar i have is an electric - fender jazzmaster (25 1/2"), and electric fender jazz bass (34") if that counts. I tend to use heavy tension strings on my guitars, often flatwound 12s, so its more my concern whether the strings will be too slack with the available guages at selmac short scale. I also tune down a half-step sometimes because my piano happens to be tuned like that.

Heretic

Greetings jorri:

The Saga Gitane instruments are often maligned, unfairly, in my opinion. I've owned 3: a DG-500 D-hole, and presently I have DG-250 M maple, and a DG-300 Jorgenson petite bouche. I have to say that they open up sound wise with time and playing. They are, in my opinion great values and very good guitars.

Here's an example of an Irish bloke, Colm Reilly, playing his DG-300 while using his own backing track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZMext-HEGg

I can't agree that they don't have any personality.

I found that by hollowing out the Gitane bridge, they get more lively and really great.

Heretic