Teaching Scales and Arpeggios vs. Arps Only

jovation

Over the past year, I've picked up two guitar students whom I'm teaching the fundamentals of
Gypsy Jazz. One of my students comes from a folk/rock background who can mimic shapes,
but needs to work on some fundamentals of theory, plus some basic block and tackle issues
around chords and scales.

As he is focused on Gypsy Jazz, I am debating whether I should work with him on full seven note
scales then work on the arpeggios for those scales, or whether to skip seven note scales and
work on arpeggios mainly.

At first, it would seem that learning both is the best route, but two factors make me second guess
that:

1) There are only so many minutes in the day for one to practice, and if one had to choose, it
would seem arpeggios are more practical.

2) In my own improvised soloing, I will tend at times to run some scale type patterns, which
sometimes sounds ok, but often is not really a Gypsy flavor. That's likely because I learned
scales (classically) before I focused on arpeggios. Perhaps if you flip it around, learn arpeggios,
then add scale notes later on, the flavor of the improvised soloing would change.

Opinions?

Thanks.

Michael Bauer

I think arpeggios first and foremost, and once those are down, teach the upper and lower aproaches. Stephane Wrembel's book lays out the various arpeggios as well or better than anyone, so it is a good starting point. Then books like Daniel Givone's (the older one...I haven't looked at the new ones) and Gonzalo Bergara's apply those basic lessons to chord progressions. Gonzalo's books are especially useful IMHO. And of course, Django! Never forget Django! "All of Me" and "I'll See You In My Dreams" are really good studies in how to take the basics and turn them into something spectacular.

Others may disagree, but I see this as the best approach. Scales don't seem to matter as much in GJ, until you get to be bop tunes, and even then are secondary to arpeggios.

Tele295

Arpeggio and chord theory go hand in hand. It makes sense to deal with them at the same time

jovation

Thank you for all of the replies.

And by coincidence, I am using the Wrembel book with my students,
(which we may supplement with one of Michael's chord books)
and our first exploratory tune is "All of Me".

Michael Bauer

I think the Boustani book sums up chords rather nicely from a rhythm perspective. Wrembel's MIB system lays out and approach to upper string arpeggios really well. If you e-mail him, I'm sure he'd share it with you. Or send me a PM and I can probably help.

Bones

Michael,

What is Wrembel's MIB system about?

Jovation,

What's this?

---0---1---------------<12>~~~~~
---0---1---------------<12>~~~~~
---0---1--4--5--------<12>~~~~~
-----------3--4--------<12>~~~~~
-----------4--5--4h5------------
-3--------------------3---(DR)--

Thanks

Michael Bauer

Hi Bones!

Stephane calls it "Money in the Bank"! What MIB really stands for I can't say. It just refers to learning arpeggios in every key in three positions on the first four strings picking all ascending, all descending, up/down, and down/up. He also adds note values to that, and then eventually lower and upper approaches and enclosures, and finally the notes on the lowest two strings. He'll have you learn a tune at first, say "All of Me" or "Minor Swing" just playing the arpeggios through the changes, but switching positions every measure. Another thing he had me do at first was solo using only chord tones, so that phrasing became the most important thing. By the time you work through all this, you really have a pretty good grasp of the fingerboard. It makes a great warmup exercise, and it's a great way to map out where you need to be when as you learn a tune. I try to do it for 5-10 minutes when I start practicing, but I do lapse occasionally.

If I've left anything out, perhaps one of Stephane's other students could fill it in.

Michael

Michael

jovation

[quote="Bones"]Michael,

...

Jovation,

What's this?

---0---1---------------<12>~~~~~
---0---1---------------<12>~~~~~
---0---1--4--5--------<12>~~~~~
-----------3--4--------<12>~~~~~
-----------4--5--4h5------------
-3--------------------3---(DR)--

Thanks[/quote]

That is a signature post I had carried over from my days in posting on Yahoo Group Post.

It is tablature for the ending form to at least two Django tunes I know of one is "When Day Is Done" -
and I guess someone in the forum will recall the other.

It seems like an appropriate way to close a message on the forum, just as it would be the end tag on a song.

The “(DR)” is in respect to the man who played it.

[b]Jimmy[/b]

djangology

You can derive pseudo-scales by thinking in terms of leading and following tones of a arpeggio. The diminshed arpeggio is a perfect example. I posted an example here: http://djangology.net/2004/10/diminishe ... notes.html

Bones

Hi Jovation,

Thanks for the reply and cool idea.

I play that one like this:

-------------------------<12>~~~~
---5---6---4---5-------<12>~~~~~
---4---5---3---4-------<12>~~~~~
---X---X---X---X---0------------
---5---6---4---5----------------
-3------------------------------

bbwood_98

Teach them arpeggios first- no need to explain them using theory exactly . . . but if they can visualize them you can get someplace because each time they hit a note that is a "risk" they have a home. Steph's MIB system is a perfect example of this- and works amazingly well. In this system- there are three four note groups on the top four strings for each major (or dominant) and minor (any type) chord. You play one, then the next, then the third, then go back one- in eighth notes for each two measure group (ie. minor swing, all 2 measure harmonic movement). great stuff.
After they have a handle on this at mid tempos, you can move on to scales and "outside" the chord tones. Then all the fancy theory comes in handy!
Cheers,
B.
Ps. Just my two cents!