For all you thinking about refinishing your guitars...

Shawn

Klatu...I guess I'd never thought about doing finish work on the professional level. I don't even know what a luthier would charge to do the same job. I sure know that French polishing is time consuming, but very fun once you get the hang of it.

Frater and Elliot...thank you for the kind words. I'm thinking in the next few weeks I might tackle my Archtop, and do the same thing with it. If so, I'll post pictures of it as well.

Jeff...I recommend a Saturn L200, 100 degrees and about 98% humidity ! I think with a little work and patience people can squeeze more out of their guitars than they realize. To me, guitars are tools, beautiful tools...yes, but tools nonetheless. I'm not worried about decreasing the "value" of an instrument, just so long as the work I put into it improves the tone, feel, etc.

tubetwang

hi guys,

first post here...

got a Selmer copy from Rondo some months ago...SX JAN-1

the tuners are Saga and they hold up good, but i've installed ferrules in the headstock like higher end guitars...

i've also removed the plastic...her...the poly coating...

waiting on a good bridge from Mr. Cola and installed a good tailpiece...

the top is cedar and the scale lenght is 25.75 inches

this guitar has got a flat classical guitar neck...weird...

i removed the frets and will sand it down to a 16 foot radius with medium high frets...will have to see about the zero fret...

nice little project , amber schellac on the finish...

Jeff Moore

tubetwang
Let us know how it turns out.
I'm with you on the radiused neck! Don't know how to pull off some things on flatish necks.

Shawn
I'm having trouble believing your 255 was french polished from the factory. I thought polish alone would cost half or all as much as the selling price? And why would your french polish get you a distinct result sound-wise compared to theirs? Maybe I'm miss-reading your first sentences in your first post!

I like my Ciganos a lot. Long and short, but they're inexpensive enough for me to do the neck things I've already developed without crying if I screw up. And I wouldn't mind seeing if I can refine the sound too!

Shawn, when you say french polish, are you talking about alcohol and shellac flakes and elbow grease?
And do you think the old finish on your 255 was any more "improvable" than a Cigano finsh. Maybe I can take the "bad" Cigano short scale and separately try a french finish to see if I can tame the lows.
Never done shellac but watched a luthier friend several times doing his classicals with it.
I'd appreciate any thoughts you have if you've seen the finish on and played the Ciganos.

Shawn

Hey Jeff, sorry for the confusion. The 255 originally had a factory poly finish over the entire guitar. However, I sanded down the top and finished it with brushed amber shellac with a thin coat of french polish to even it out, which is why in the first set of pictures it looks incredibly dark. Then, I finally decided to sand down the whole thing and start over...using both Amber and Blonde shellac and alcohol, and as you say...elbow grease. I guess in all the guitar has been refinished 2 or three times before the current one, which is obviously the best looking and sounding one of all.

I'm not sure of how the finishes compare from Gitane to Cigano. Most Satin finishes I have seen seem to be thinner than a gloss polyurethane, but that could just be down to how light reflects off the finish. A few recommendations:

1. DON'T sand by hand, use an orbital sander or something similar. The first time I sanded the top I didn't have a sander so I did it manually. Not only was my arm very sore, but it took at least 2 days to get the finish off...and that was just from the soundboard.

2. Blonde and Amber Shellac selection is crucial. What I mean is that with Amber shellac you really have to keep the motions of your arm steady, and cover the instrument layer by layer, otherwise it will turn out blotchy. With Blonde Shellac you need not worry as much, as there is really no pigment in the blend, so mistakes won't be noticed as much.

3. Keep it thin, and maybe consider a very thin layer of Nitrocellulose lacquer over the whole instrument. I think Lacquer is very easy to deal with and repair, and it will let the instrument breath unlike the thick plastic poly finish that was originally on these instruments.

4. If your not happy with it, simply strip it and start over. However, watch out when sanding the back and sides as the laminate rosewood finish is ultra thin and you can easily sand down right through the veneer...you can actually see in one of the pictures (on the side, near where the arm would rest) that I actually sanded a bit much and went through the veneer. This won't affect the sound at all, but it doesn't look great.

tubetwang

Saga tuners bushings install...(Telecaster ferrules...poifect fit)

www.youtube.com/user/tubetwang

sanded neck to 16 foot radius

new frets/zero install

shimmed new ebony bridge and new tail piece

inlayed some 130 years old ivory in the headstock...went with a star...

guitar was completely stripped of that awfull looking plastic poly and left au naturel

plays well...

this is not cost effective...

i did it cause i enjoy farting around and have all the tools...

i have seen many Gypsy players use real crappy guitars...

so long!

Jeff Moore

Shawn,

Thanks for the details. Done a lot of mods, but not French Polish.
The process itself has a mystique of difficulty, but I think I have to put something over raw wood as it would stain and perhaps dry (and wet) to easily.

It was real decent of you to put out what you'd done, and the result, and answer questions.
Jeff

elropo

i've sanded the polyurethane finish off the top of my gitane d-500 with a power sander and it came out great. the back of the guitar should be no problem as well. i'm wondering if you used your orbital sander on the sides as well. how did you navigate the concave areas (waist)? i saw your pics of the sides & back and it looks great. if you did use the orbital on the sides, did you come close to sanding through the laminate? thanks

ron

Shawn

Hi Elropo,

Glad to here the top sanding worked out for you. Yes, I did sand the back and sides both with the orbital sander, you will just need to be very careful when doing so. I actually did sand through the veneer of rosewood in one place, but was able to hide it with permanent markers and stain before I finished it, and you barely notice it now. Just take your time and be careful, and the biggest piece of advise for doing the back and sides would be: don't press down very hard on the sander...just let it glide over the finish with very little effort.

Also, I have refinished the back, sides, and neck once more on this guitar. I stained the Mahogany neck with Walnut stain, cut deeper grooves for the strings, and then refinished in Amber French Polish and Nitro. I like a darker and more antique looking finish, so I was never happy enough with the Blonde French Polish 8) .

thrip

I didn't do it myself, but I have a Gitane DG330 "Tuxedo" that has been completely stripped of its lacquer and finished with danish oil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhEmm0JbmOc&

Shawn

Thanks for posting that Tim, I'm a subscriber of yours on your youtube channel, and have really enjoyed your playing. I do have one question about your DG330 though...how does it sound in person compared to other Selmer guitars (volume, tone, etc.)? Also, is the top arch significantly more in this model?

Shawn