Cafe American Guitars?

John G

Jeff, I got a bridge blank and will attempt to make a suitable bridge for that DG300. The GJ15 is OK for what it is. I thought I wouldn't like the wider neck but I can do a better F natural barre chord with it. I have a messed up left index finger that makes some chords difficult. The sound is OK. I will have to develop the technique to get it to sound good. I want to try some Elixir strings on it and level the frets. Mostly, I just need to practice a lot.

GregLewis

John G wrote:

Jeff, I got a bridge blank and will attempt to make a suitable bridge for that DG300. The GJ15 is OK for what it is. I thought I wouldn't like the wider neck but I can do a better F natural barre chord with it. I have a messed up left index finger that makes some chords difficult. The sound is OK. I will have to develop the technique to get it to sound good. I want to try some Elixir strings on it and level the frets. Mostly, I just need to practice a lot.

Well, here's my story - I got a GJ-15m, and the action was much higher than I wanted. I talked to Michael and his opinion was that most GJ-15's need a DuPont #3 or #4. I thought that seemed a little high, but maybe I wasn't measuring it correctly.

So I got the DuPont #3, but just setting it on the guitar I could tell it was, in my opinion, huge. What to do, as I didn't want to screw up a beautiful DuPont bridge. My solution - I bought an adjustable bridge of the type usually found on archtops. Since the GJ-15 top is virtually flat, there were no fitting issues. I reduced its height until, at its lowest adjustment and at regular tension (Argies .11) there was some buzz. Then I started to raise it until the buzz stopped and the action was to my liking. I'm actually still at this stage. Once I'm satisfied, I can measure the adjustable and modify the DuPont (I have shortened the DuPont a bit, so I can't return it). Lots of work, but I think I'll be happy with the result - and that's the whole point!

I also "cheated" the spacing on the "D" string slightly towards the "A", to compensate for my less-than-elegant fingers. It's made a big difference, and it's on my "experimental" bridge. Good to be able to try things out at low cost.

One question - on the DuPont the ends of the legs are slightly raised from the level of the top. Is it important to reduce the footprint of the bridge?

Hope this helps.

Greg

Jeff Moore

I'm cool with either wide or thin necks, though I still prefer the wide neck. I play a VR and a D-hole Manouche. The D-hole has an almost 2 inch nut, like real wide. I like it. I can play one guitar right after the other and the hands "adjust" pretty quick.
I haven't but one Dupont bridge and I think it had or has those "relieved" ends on the feet? I'm guessing that it is for the following reasons:
1. The struts - bracing - tonebars (S.B.T.s) or whatever you call the hardwood pieces that support the bridge are not under the top exactly where the mustache ends begin, but a little ways in from the ends of the mustaches towards the center of the guitar. I think that the pressure from the bridge should fall on those SBTs.
2. If you screw up, as I have, and make a bridge whose pressure lands outside the SBTs, the tone will sound more like a banjo, which reaffirms reason one and seems consistent with what Dupont is doing. And I don't mean a little like a banjo, but Like A Banjo! For this reason, when I make a bridge I make sure the pressure falls on the SBTs regardless of whether I relieve the ends of the bridge. I've found that if the pressure hits the SBT and the little bit of top between the SBT and the mustache, its still fine. It just has to hit the SBT squarely. I've had success this way even when the SBTs aren't evenly spaced at all! Like 1/2 inch different in their respective distance from the mustache ends! Long as I get the pressure over the SBT, it sounds good. This is the way my Manouche Moreno was built. The SBTs are way (1/2 inch) out of being glued in as a mirror image. I built an out of mirror image bridge to match and it sounds great.
You might try reaching into your D hole guitar when the strings are loose or off, and just feel around under where the bridge lives and you'll find the SBTs.

An adjustable bridge seems like a good way to find string height you want. To me, there's a compromise between ease of play and string slap.
Did the adjustable bridge change the sound enough to hear?
I'm also wondering why you each didn't lower the bridges that came with the guitars?
It's real nice to keep things so they can be put back to "original", but I wouldn't have worried about that with a less expensive guitar. They don't resell much anyway.
You both moved to buying bridges? Whatever gets it done!

It's so easy to "over adjust" a bridge and end up shimming. The adjustable bridge seems like the perfect way to find the exact height you want without doing any tedious and non-reversable woodwork!
I'm glad you are moving into getting the guitars operating right. When I succeed in maximizing the sound and playability, it really can affect my willingness to play and practice. I have many bridges I've made and screwed up in a drawer = mistakes. But I also have a few guitars that I've completely refined the bridges on and I continuously play em. The only one I have had a professional fret job on is even a little more improved. Yum
$$$

GregLewis

Actually, I did work on the original Ciugano bridge. Followed Josh's bridge fitting instructions, and only took wood off the top of the bridge. Got the action I wanted - also went through the top of the bridge in one spot. Not good! There wasn't a lot of "meat" there. Don't want to do that to the DuPont.

I appreciate your comments on the spots to locate the feet of the bridge, and the relief on the bridge's feet. I guessed that was the reason, and it certainly makes sense. I'll certainly try that.

I really like the idea of doing this bridge work and setting the guitar up for me. It also shows me that there is no "one way" to do this - it is, after all, a guitar that I will play. And it's only a guitar, its not the Mona Lisa (God knows what I'd do to that!). Or, as my father used to say, and upfront apologies to felinephiles - "there's more than one way to skin a cat".

Greg

Matty

Hi guys,

I took delivery of a lefty Café Américain guitar a couple days ago and I thought I'd contribute a mini-review, since there doesn't seem to be a lot of info on these outside of the seller's eBay page. My background: this was a total impulse purchase and it is my first gypsy jazz guitar. I've been an electric guitar player for ~20 years and a Django fan for about as long. I'm also a hobbyist luthier (again, electric guitars) who's sold a couple of instruments. I would call myself a well-rounded hack in both domains.

BTW I have no affiliation to the nice man who sells these guitars on eBay. (In fact, if I'd found out about this site before checking out eBay, I would've never bought the thing.) Also, apologies if any of the below is unclear, English is my second language (French Canadian in the house!) and I know I slip up from time to time.

Alright, here goes. There is about zero doubt that the guitar is Asian-made, starting with the phony, generic, pseudo-French branding. The interesting thing is that from looking at several construction details, it looks as though there is a significant amount of manual work involved in making these.

General impressions

Materials used for the body seem to be of good quality, from the back/sides to the top and the rosette. Very pretty. Looking inside the soundhole, the finish is quite thick.

The back has an obvious, but slight arch/bombé. I'm not positive about the top, which is uneven/sinking. No clear pliage (but then again I'm not sure how obvious pliage is supposed to be on a completed guitar. I've seen a handful of work-in-progress pictures of bent tops, but finished guitars don't seem to show off that feature very well.)

The neck wood looks like generic Asian mahogany/NATO. My particular neck seems very solid, i.e. no rubber neck and there's a negligible rise in pitch on the low E string as I take off all the other strings.

The rosewood fingerboard looks dull and low-grade; same thing for the rosewood bridge, which is shimmed with unidentified, lighter-colored wood. The rosewood might just need to be oiled.

Tuners have a positively cheap feeling, but they work just fine.

Most frets show fine filing marks, as does the fingerboard. Clearly, the fret job was rushed. Mind you, I'm not experiencing any fret buzz nor do bends catch on the frets. No fret ends are sticking out - in fact, a couple of them are a wee bit shorter and end right over the wooden neck binding. Said wooden binding is nicely done throughout.

Default action seems to be right on the money based on the research I've done on this forum (1/8" at the 6th string's 12 fret)

The one ugly thing about it is that, given its low neck angle, the stock guitar is unplayable - the strings move all over the place on the bridge. It was a quick enough fix with some chalk to mark each string's position, then a quick slotting with a sandpaper-wrapped knife, but this should have really been done at the "French" factory.

The guitar was inexplicably strung with regular bronze strings. The seller threw in a free set of 10-45 Philippe Bosset, which were promptly installed.

I can't compare the tone to anything else I've played, but what I can say is that after years of pumping out pseudo-gypsy-jazz on electrics and flat-tops, bashing on these strings with a 5mm Dunlop Primetone was a big Eureka moment. That sound is suddenly there. The percussive punch is there. I think the midrange "mwah" is lacking when compared to the real things as heard on the Youtubes, but playing this cheap copy was immediately satisfying. The volume is shocking, and I tend to use a very light touch on the guitar. Neighbours are gonna know what I'm up to, no doubt.

My biggest gripe about this guitar is the optimistic/misleading marketing, cause otherwise, it's a fine playing instrument. It is a bit crudely built, but the overall feeling is that of a solid instrument. If I were still an active musician I would insta-replace the tuners out of a very real fear that they might fail suddenly, but the guitar itself seems to have good bones, and as I mentioned before, that manouche sound is there.

Verdict

Considering the number of decent entry-level guitars available on this site and elsewere, it's hard to recommend that you buy a Café Américain at the current asking price of $475-$500. That said, I also find it hard to be disappointed with what I've got. I'm certainly not returning it, and I think it can make sense if you're a lefty on a tight budget (and don't mind having to apply a quick fix to the bridge.)

Will post pics in a few.

Matty

Pics (and another bit of consumer advice - simili-leather is not quite cat-proof)

http://i.imgur.com/Aogq7OB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mT2JMHs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RUBqAzW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FvNoKi9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RBPnESE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/m3lnrzv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vFvtZYt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JhUXdhq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aSYwYLc.jpg

crookedpinky

So, which is it - made in France as the previous poster states or Asian/Chinese made as a previous poster - and the pictures themselves - suggests ?

A friend of mine imported a guitar from China which had several features identical to the Cafe Americain guitars - yellow colored neck, inappropriate center back strip, big heel, abalone soundhole inlay. truss rod accessible at head end with truss rod cover and fingerboard binding.

He paid £130.00 including case and shipping - significantly less than a Cafe Americain on Ebay. I have to say it was a really good guitar for the money but I often feel that the description of Cafe Americains on various sites are slightly misleading. However if the last poster can give more details of the factory he visited in France that I would stand corrected.

MichaelHorowitz

crookedpinky wrote:

So, which is it - made in France as the previous poster states or Asian/Chinese made as a previous poster - and the pictures themselves - suggests ?

The post from FearlessManouche is most likely the US importer for Cafe Amercaine trying to shill his own products on the forum. It's a classic spam post:

Only post
Posted on the first day the account was opened
Clearly promoting a given product, despite the thinly veiled faux objectivity

And, the ip address of the poster is from Phoenix Arizona, the same location of Cafe Amercaine's US importer who, coincidentally, also imports Gallato guitars.

I have always heard from people in the industry that, despite claims of being French made, both Cafe Amercaine and Gallato guitars are Asian made. The price alone should be a huge red flag as you'd be hard pressed to find any luthier in France who could build a guitar for just a few hundred Euro.

Caveat Emptor,

Michael

jimvence

Yes,

"FearlessManouche

Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:00 pm

First post ever to the forum, comes 90 mins later, to discuss visiting the French workshop that produces guitars at a price point of MIC guitars.

My favorite:

"So went onto the workshop of Café Americain. Nice guitars, really well priced. Spent a while there trying different guitars and watching them as they made them.".

So what's not to trust? ;0)

Buco

Jeff Moore wrote:

1. The struts - bracing - tonebars (S.B.T.s) or whatever you call the hardwood pieces that support the bridge are not under the top exactly where the mustache ends begin, but a little ways in from the ends of the mustaches towards the center of the guitar. I think that the pressure from the bridge should fall on those SBTs.
2. If you screw up, as I have, and make a bridge whose pressure lands outside the SBTs, the tone will ge to match and it sounds great.
You might try reaching into your D hole guitar when the strings are loose or off, and just feel around under where the bridge lives and you'll find the SBTs.

I haven't heard about detail before, this is Interesting. I've been curious about trying out different bridges lately.

If anyone else is a little confused about visuals of what you were saying I found this reference: