DjangoBooks.com
Welcome to our Community!
Categories
- 18.2K All Categories
- 447 General
- 287 Welcome
- 11 Archtop Eddy's Corner
- 82 CD, DVD, and Concert Reviews
- 39 FAQ
- 9 Gypsy Jazz Italia
- 19 Photos
- 27 Gypsy Picking
- 4 Unaccompanied Django
- 4 Pearl Django Play-Along Vol.1
- 1 Gypsy Fire
- 26 Gypsy Rhythm
- 608 Gypsy Jazz University - Get Educated
- 117 Gypsy Jazz 101
- 192 Repertoire
- 144 History
- 98 Technique
- 40 Licks and Patterns
- Daniel Givone Manouche Guitare Method Users Group
- 17 Eddie Lang Club
- 1.1K Gypsy Jazz Gear
- 702 Guitars, Strings, Picks, Amps, Pickups and Other Accessories
- 354 Classifieds
- 41 Recording
- 39 Other Instruments
- 17 Violin
- 3 Mandolin
- 6 Accordion
- 3 Bass
- 10 Woodwinds
- 223 Gypsy Jazz Events
- 87 North America
- 87 Europe
- 49 International
In this Discussion
Who's Online 1
Today's Birthdays
Comments
I have one set of Adirondak (red) spruce that I am going to use and a set of plain Sitka.
And thoughts about Englemann?
I have a set of Indian rosewood back and sides (solid), bigleaf flamed maple (solid) and a really nice set of flamey walnut.
Bending the cutaway should be interesting but I am going to try it dry with just a spritz of water in a side bending fixture (scraps first ) to see how it goes.
I'm planning to pair up a plain Sitka top with the rosewood, the red spruce with the maple, and the bearclaw with the walnut but I might switch them around depending on how things feel when I get them thicknessed and braced.
The neck angle to shoot for is around 2.5 degrees as I recall???? I'll have to look back thru the old posts/my notes to confirm this.
The original Selmers used three veneers of about .030", so I'm guessing they were pretty close to .090" and they didn't sound too bad.
If you want to try laminating, it is not that hard. I use the method laid out in Collins' book. Made side molds out of MD fiber board laminated to thickness, cut and faired to shape and epoxy coated for stability. I laminated full size cawls off molds. Making the molds is time consuming, but once made, the side laminating goes quickly. I can laminate a side in about 60 minutes. The back mold is just two pieces of MD fiber board and LOTS of clamps. I much prefer plastic resin glue (Weldwood) over Titebond for laminating. Much less humidification of the wood. With Titebond, it takes a month for the laminates to dry out after gluing. With PRG, they are ready to go in a day or two. I've gotten away from using poplar on the middle ply like Selmer did because it expands dramatically when wetted with glue, corrugates badly if you don't get it clamped up quick enough and seems to cause the back laminate especially to warp in the wrong direction, i.e. concave instead of convex. I've been using base grade mahogany veneer instead, much more stable. Selmer may have used hide glue and a rapid clamping method to get around this. I don't see any magic though in the type of wood used for the inner ply or plies.
CB
Thanks for that input. I definitely plan to do the laminate thing soon but I already have the solid wood for these three and I'm curious how they will sound.
Anybody have any numbers on neck angle? I seem to remember some thread on the subject at one time.
As far as the fear factor from making solid would only .080", my guitart has stood up to pretty normal abusea for the last four years with no problem. I have also been building other instruments using this dimension for at least seven years with no problems in rosewood and maccasser ebony. For maple and wlanut I wouldn't go that low but with the dense ones I have had good results. Just my 2p.
Ken Bloom
Neck angle is just a tool to effect the break angle of the strings over the bridge. The more neck angle, the more break angle at the bridge. The Selmer pliage and the Busato bombe increase break angle by raising the bridge area relative to the tailpiece. Simply a taller bridge as you see on some Favinos will do the same thing. Increasing break angle increases the downward pressure on the bridge and effects tone. I think the conventional wisdom for all stringed instruments is that increasing break angle increases volume at the expense of tonal compexity and visa versa. Up to a point, within limits. And the relationship of the break angle to the top stiffness, arch, bracing, scale length, string tension, etc is complicated, making absolute statements difficult, at least for me. Always keep in mind the inter-relationship of neck angle, bridge height and string action. Changing one effects the others. Don't ask me how I know :oops:
Craig
- should i start building a simpler kind of guitar than a selmer?
- if not, i suppose i shouldn´t rely only on the Collins book, should i? (i didn´t know anything about inaccuracies)
sorry for this Off-topic, and thanks!
Miguel.
Great comments. What is a Busato bombe, is bombe the same as arch?
Noodle,
Go for it but be safe. Wood working tools are sharp and many people lose fingers. Not good for your guitar playing career! If you have no training, get some basic wood working skills first (take a class if possible). As far as books, I have a bunch and I read them all and then make my own design decisions but usually when I stray too far from conventional designs it does not work out too well so stay with traditional designs at least until you get comfortable with the process.
My 2 cents.
If you don't already have decent woodworking chops, that will be your biggest challenge and I don't think the kind of guitar you build matters too much in that regard.
As guitars go, a selmer isn't really all that complicated. The cutaway is tricky and the arched top is a bit complicated, but not that bad really. Easier than an carved archtop guitar. Many of the elements are straight forward like any other guitar. Making any kind of guitar will take a good chunk of time and commitment, so I'd start with the one you really want have to make so as to keep your motivation in the right place. Consider using adequate but not the most expensive materials until you have built enough to justify them. Rosewood veneer and an AAA Spruce top will not make much difference on your first effort.
There is no one authoritative source for building a selmer guitar, yet. Collins book is the only step by step book on selmer construction specifically. It will get the job done and has lots of useful info but yes, there are inaccuracies. I'd start with Francois Charle's plans which is as accurate as is available and his book on the Henri Selmer Co. guitars which is a masterpiece documenting all things Selmer guitar but is light on construction details. Cumpiano's book has many many good details of general guitar building techniques and concepts. Collins book has good info on selmer specific construction techniques such as making laminated backs and sides. Collins' book is more like a recipe or paint by numbers: take a piece of wood and make it this specific size for, say, the bridge. He doesn't tell you why. And his techniques are fairly reliant on machinery and jigs, something you really don't need unless you want to go into production. You can do most everything with hand tools if you like and Cumpiano is much better in this regard.
So, to summarize, use the Charle plans for dimensions, the Cumpiano book and others for technique and Collins for selmer specific technique (but not dimensions, at least not without checking against the Charle plans). The other books mentioned like the Bob Bennedeto book are good as every book brings unique ideas to the mix. I have a dozen and draw on them all.
I think Boehmian's post about keeping a guitar you like handy as a reference through out the building process is excellent. It really helps with the three dimensional understanding of the thing, something pictures can't do as well.
Craig.
I think bombe translates roughly as "pot belly". Some Busatos have tops that look like a pot belly under the bridge. It is mostly formed into the top before bracing I think.
Most commercially made selmer style guitars today are arched by the bracing and shape of the sides both lengthwise and sideways across the top. The top is easily flexible enough to take this moderate compound shape. If you look across a top like this, you will see the high point is around the sound hole.
With a Selmer pliage or Busato bombe, the top is formed before bracing so the high point ends up under the bridge. The arch is more pronounced. This is generally considered a superior way of doing things, but takes more time in construction though not as much is sometimes suggested (takes me about 30 minutes to bend a pliage in the two top halves before gluing.) I think it is debatable whether the formed arch is truly superior, but the old Selmers and Busatos we love had them and the best examples of modern selmer style guitars like the Dupont Vielle Reserve have them. Certainly looks cool
Interestingly, the Favino guitars do not have much arch at all, nothing formed like a pliage. And these are great guitars too, though tonally different than Selmers or Busatos. Come to think of it, a Favino style is probably easier to build than a true Selmer. The top in particular is simpler with less bracing and less arch, no pliage. Michael Collins has plans for a Favino. I have a set, they are lacking in dimensional info, but if you buy the full scale version, you can just measure most of what you need straight off. Again, combine resources.
CB
Get the Cumoiano book, either a library or purchase used , then new if not found used.
This is an excellent intro into building.
The Cumpiano book is well written, well illustrated, has accurate dimensions and
good direction and no fluff. It is considered by many as "essential"
It is modestly priced and a good value. I rely on it and use it as a reference.
The Collins book.. read previous posts. Interesting that his available plans do not correspond to the guitar constructed in the book.
Get Charle plans or Summerfield.
Get the Charle book.... available again in a soft cover version.
Good luck