New Guitar!

Musette

Hi everybody:

8) Got my first gypsy jazz guitar!!!
It's a 2010 Dupont Nomade. (lefty btw)
First of all i want to say that i'm enjoying it very much.
But i have some concerns...i think this are basic guitar problems, but i really don't know much about it, so i was hoping someone could help me:

1) There is a nasty buzz when i play on the 12th fret on the high E string.
What should i do? is it the action, bridge, trus rod, etc?
I took off the strings that it came with and replaced them with some Gallis, but the buzz is still there.
Also i think the guitar hasn't much sustain. Is this normal on this kind of guitars?

2) I've been playing with a Wegen Gypsyjazzpick (3.5mm) and i find it really weird, it feels like it doesn't take all of the guitar's tone quality and volume out, and there is a noticeable sound when the pick makes contact with the string, like a scratch or something.
And to be honest, i can play a lot faster and more comfortable with thinner and generic picks.

Why?

However, i do like the bassy rounded sound i get form the Wegen that i don't get from other picks.

3) Setup

Which are the basic things i should care for the guitar's setup?

4) Humidity

Whats the recommended relative humidity for this instruments?

45% - 55%?????


Any info is much appreciated.

Best,
David R.

seeirwin

First off, congratulations!

Second, I'm far from being an expert, but here are my thoughts on your questions:


1) re: fret buzz. it could be any of the things you mention. In addition, the humidity (which you also mentioned) could play a factor. Make sure it's in the 55% range. You may also have a loose fret, which was the case on my Manouche Latcho Drom. I just pounded the fret back in and it took care of the buzz.

"Also i think the guitar hasn't much sustain. Is this normal on this kind of guitars?" You may find that you need to play the guitar a bit differently than whatever you are used to playing. I've never played a nomade, so I'm not sure, but don't be afraid to play with some force and conviction.


2) re: gypsy pick. Are you using the gypsy picking technique? Those picks can sound pretty thin if you aren't. If you watch someone who is really advanced at this music, they play very forcefully (it's hard to describe with words. maybe percussively is a better word) even when they aren't playing particularly loud. Some people liken the motion to shaking out a match. Try to make sure the motion is coming from your wrist and that you are really driving the string. Again, the gypsy picking technique really helps when you are using the thick picks. As far as being able to play faster with a fender medium or whatever, that's pretty normal. Just practice slow and focus on getting a good tone, and the speed will come. Let the weight of your hand do the work. I'm sure everyone goes through this, but I found it frustrating when I first got into this that as I got better at gypsy picking, it became second nature, and then I had trouble alternate picking. The upshot was that there were things that I used to be able to play with alternate picking that I couldn't do anymore, and my gypsy picking hadn't gotten to the point where I could play things that sounded good tone-wise at even a medium tempo. I feel like that's pretty normal so, if that's happening to you, don't get discouraged.


3) Setup

Which are the basic things i should care for the guitar's setup?

Humidity is probably the big thing, depending on where you live. Especially depending on the finish your guitar has. The AJL relic finish guitars, for example, go haywire with changes in humidity because the top doesn't have much of a finish. The action can go from super high to buzzy low literally overnight. Other than that, some guitars are really meant to have .10s on them (some .11s), while it doesn't matter much for others.

I'm sure your Nomade is pretty well built, so you shouldn't need to worry obsessively about setup and care. Just play the hell out of it.

Enjoy the new axe!

klaatu

Musette wrote:

Also i think the guitar hasn't much sustain. Is this normal on this kind of guitars?

It is pretty much normal. You won't get the sustain from a Selmac that you might be accustomed to from a flattop. When playing rhythm, you don't really want sustain, you want a crunchy, dry effect. On lead, the playing style is a very rapid staccato. Acoustic archtops are somewhat similar, not a lot of sustain but tremendous projection when chords are struck forcefully.

2) I've been playing with a Wegen Gypsyjazzpick (3.5mm) ... and there is a noticeable sound when the pick makes contact with the string, like a scratch or something.

I find that pick to be a bit scratchy as well. You might want to try something like the Wegen Big City pick or a Dugain, some of which are quieter. I like the "tortoise" one.

Musette

Thanks for the quick reply seeirwin!

I think it is better if i take the guitar to a luthier to set it up, and see if he can fix the fret buzz.

A Dugain is definitely the next pick i'll buy, Klaatu.

Maybe later i'll upload some clips i made with the Nomade and you can give your opinion about the guitar's sound.

Thanks
David R.

BluesBop Harry

Congrats on the new guitar!
As far as the buzz, your action might be too low... do you have different height bridges? If not you can try shimming the bridge temporarily to see if that helps
It could also be that the guitar was set up for the lowest possible action and then dried out a bit so you get buzz. The solution: humidify
Try swapping the string for a thinner or thicker one.

For both buzzing and sustain make sure you're fretting down the string with enough force

These guitar do not have a lot of sustain but if you want more it's better achieved by picking more lightly and fretting down well.

As far as picks oddly enough I have seen only a handful of the old school players using the real fat picks.
Most of the younger generation pros use 1.5 or 2mm Dunlop picks. That includes: Bireli, Andreas Oberg, Adrien Moignard, Seb Giniaux, Gonzao Bergara, Stochelo (Wegen Big City).
Thinner picks give you more control, articulation and a lot less noise.

I guess the thing about tone is finesse rather than brute force. If you only use the strings and pick to get your sound it won't matter much which guitar you play on and notes will be short (fast attack, quick decay) and loud. You have to find a way to use the box of the guitar to get tone that you can shape, find the warmth in your guitar.

It's a good idea to learn a little bit how to setup your guitar so you can experiment and find out what works best for you and your guitar. Mainly action, relief and string gauge I wouldn't get into frets unless you know what you're doing.

Best.

Jazzaferri

Have you looked at Blue Chip Picks

I find them very quiet, great tone and very fast off the strings and they don't seem to wear much ... I have about 500 hours on mine and can barely see the wear

Musette

BluesBop Harry wrote:

It's a good idea to learn a little bit how to setup your guitar so you can experiment and find out what works best for you and your guitar. Mainly action, relief and string gauge I wouldn't get into frets unless you know what you're doing.

Best.

Yeah, but i don't want to mess with a 1250 euro guitar. I know it is an entry model but it's still very expensive.

About the tone; yeah i think it's just a matter of time and practice so i can become familiar with the feeling of the guitar and just improve my gypsy picking.


Jazzaferri: No, i have'nt tried those picks. Where can i find 'em?


Thanks.

klaatu

Musette wrote:

Yeah, but i don't want to mess with a 1250 euro guitar. I know it is an entry model but it's still very expensive.

Oh, I think it's safe to say that the Nomade is not an entry level guitar. It may be an entry level Dupont, but it's a far better instrument than most of us start off with. You're fortunate to be able to own a "starter" of that quality.

As to the suggested adjustments, they're nothing to worry about. Fretwork (and deciding whether it's even necessary) is best left to a pro, but the rest you can learn to do yourself without worries. Action adjustment (upward) on Selmacs is a simple matter of slipping shims under the feet of the bridge. You can cut these out of all sorts of material. Hard woods are best, but I've seen people use cut-up credit cards. There's a photo of Jimmy Rosenberg on one of his CDs with picks shoved under the bridge of his guitar (!), and Django used matchbook covers. The main thing to remember is that 1mm of shim will raise your action approximately .5 mm at the 12th fret.

Adjusting action downward involves either removing wood from the bridge or replacing it with a lower bridge. Doesn't sound like you need to worry about that.

Neck relief is not hard to check, although some people shy away from actually adjusting it. This is simply the amount of bow in the neck. Most people prefer a little bow rather than a perfectly straight neck. A bit of a dip at the neck's midpoint will allow more room for the string to vibrate, alleviating any tendency to buzz. It should be noted, however, that some gypsy players actually like some buzz, and their necks may be pretty nearly flat.

Clamp a capo over the strings right on top of the 1st fret (not in between frets). Now, press the 6th string down onto the fret where the neck meets the body (14th fret in your case), again right on top of it. Most people want to see a teeny bit of daylight between the string and the fret that is halfway in between (7th fret in this case). If you've got a feeler gauge (the kind you use for adjusting spark plugs), a gap of .012" is pretty common. If you don't see a gap, a truss rod adjustment may be in order. Duponts generally come with a wrench, and there are lots of Web sites with good advice about this process (here's one: http://www.athensmusician.net/archive/2001-05-01_geneimbody1.shtml). If you do try this yourself, remember to make the adjustments in small increments and check in between. It can take a while for the neck to respond fully to an adjustment. If you're not comfortable with doing this yourself, any guitar tech can do it for you.

It's important to keep in mind that truss rod adjustment is for changing the amount of neck relief, not for adjusting the action.

Other than that, enjoy your new Dupont. You've got a fine guitar there.

Musette

Hi Ben,

I did what you said about the neck relief (the 1st and 14th fret thing) and there is a tiny gap between the 7th fret and the string, it's almost not noticeable, but i think the neck relief is just fine.


Now i'm gonna schim the bridge and see if the 12th fret buzz dissapears or at least gets slightly less loud.
BTW, i attached a small sound clip (it was taking too long to upload the whole song)
of me playing with the Nomade, both rythm and lead.
You can clearly hear the fret buzz towards the end of the clip.
Excuse my shitty playing. :oops:

Thanks.

David.

BluesBop Harry

You sound good... didn't really notice the buzz that much
Maybe try converting your file to mp3 instead of wav to upload the whole thing
If you bring your guitar to my place I could help you with setting it up

klaatu

BluesBop Harry wrote:

You sound good... didn't really notice the buzz that much

I don't notice the buzz all that much, either. There is some, but you can hear the same if not more on the recordings of many pros. A bit of buzz is part of the sound. As long as it's not actually killing the note, it may be perfectly OK. Nothing wrong with your playing, either.