Is it real?

Michael Bauer

After reading Craig's comments, it occurred to me what else is wrong with that headstock: no finish checking. Both of my Selmers have lots of it on their headstocks. There is no way that headstock could look that clean unless it were stripped, sanded, and refinished.

Also, those scallops look exactly like ones I have seen on another guitar, and it was modern. There is alot of variation in the Selmer scallops, as one might expect with hand-work headstocks. My oval hole actually has a flat transition near the nut, not curved, but the d-hole is rounded. A peek at Charle's book suugests there are lots of minor variations, again, as we might expect. There is also an extra "leaf" on the bottom right of the Selmer logo that has no mate on the other side of the "stem". That should not be.

I do think the back and sides could be real, and perhaps he neck itself, but the top and headstock are pretty clearly modern add-ons.

Good eye Craig, I didn't notice it until you pointed it out!

Shawn

Just to add a little kindle to the fire...here is a headstock from a 1951 Selmer #859 just for comparison. I'm not trying to lend creedance one way or the other but this one clearly shows machined scalloping and is in extremely good condition for its age. Also, If I'm not mistaken, the original Selmers were built on production lines, meaning said production methods would be cost effective and efficient such as using machines for scalloping work. One thing that particularly strikes me though, is that the ebay Selmer seems to have rather deep scallops...more like one would find on the Manouche Modele Jazz...whereas "confirmed authentic" Selmers are a bit shallower and slightly different in shape.



Here are some other reference pictures that may come in handy for comparison reasons:
http://www.gypsyguitars.com/makers.php?id=7&status_id=5

Or, take a look at the headstock on Selmer #657 on the Eimers website:
http://www.eimersguitars.com/restauration.html

frater

It seems the headstock might have been tinted to match the neck. Now, should I live in France and had to find a substitute for an original Selmer headstock, I would probably steal it from a Gallato 452...

Craig Bumgarner

Shawn,

Your picture and the one of a Selmer head stock on Eimer's website both appear to have what I was describing as a conical scallop, not the routed scallop of the eBay "Selmer". It is a little hard to tell, which is common with head stock pictures. Because the head plate is usually black ebony, the light has to just right to see. But the light is just right on the eBay guitar and it is clearly routed. If anyone finds a picture of a routed scallop on a real Henri Selmer, I'd be interested to see it.

By the way, the pre-restoration pictures of Selmer #657 on Eimer's site are truly the sickest thing I have ever seen. If you haven't already, have a look. Eimer's must have a stong stomach. And heart to attempt putting it all back together.

http://www.eimersguitars.com/restauration.html

For vintage guitar slueths, there is also a picture of the top bracing of a Busato, something you don't see every day. Interestingly, there are five braces, just like a Selmer. The braces above the sound hole look considerably heavier than Selmer braces in the same location. Other interesting details I've never seen before.

And check out Eimer's pictures of the bracing on Selmer #430. Small oval hole, 14 fret, and only three braces! Clearly from the transitional phase. Didn't work out so well structurally as you can see. I've seen other three brace Selmer types and they showed similar caving around the sound hole. Not that the sound wasn't still great. Two of the loudest, most cutting Selmer types I've ever heard both had only three braces. Very straight forward fundamental sound, very few overtones. You had the feeling they might collapse any minute, but it didn't seem affect the sound negatively.

CB

MichaelHorowitz

I was also suspicious about this one so I asked around and can confirm that this guitar is a replica and not a vintage Selmer. So buyer beware!

Not sure if there's a way to report this to ebay...this auction should be shut down.

Shawn

Awesome Michael! I'm was sure if anyone could get an ID on this it would be you...having been around so many original Selmer's and all.

Any idea who you think would have made such a guitar? Putting the Selmer logo on there and passing it off as authentic is rather devious, so I'd hope it wasn't a reputable luthier. However, the guitar seems to generally look at least well built for all intents and purposes, and I can't help thinking it was built by someone that knows what they were doing.

MichaelHorowitz

I can't say who built it, but it was not intended to be sold as a fake. It's a replica and was sold as such. Apparently someone is trying to resell it as real which is always a problem with well done replicas. The builder is not happy about it.

klaatu

Michael Horowitz wrote:

Not sure if there's a way to report this to ebay...this auction should be shut down.

Michael, if you go to the listing and look underneath the "Other item info" box on the right-hand side, you'll see "Report item." That's the link you want.

frater

So, there is a pliage...

klaatu

Looks like it's been pulled. Good riddance.