Choice of Voicings

Joli Gadjo

I remember a while ago reading an interview of Tchavolo Schmitt talking about the choice of voicings :

He was saying that while some choose to stay more traditional to Jazz (or Gypsy Jazz), ie using more extensions type 6/9, 6..., some might choose the "straight voicing", with just 1-3-5 +/- 7 for dominant chords... even if, at least for Swing Jazz, it sounds wrong.
But he also added that the two voicings get in the way of one another during ensemble playing.
How do you guys handle this…?

djangology

Well, while you think about that dont forget that in straight jazz the soloists play "out" a lot and in gypsy jazz they are way more "in" sounding. This has a huge impact on any dissonance that might be occurring with background chords, which is why it probably works in gypsy jazz.

Joli Gadjo

djangology wrote:

Well, while you think about that dont forget that in straight jazz the soloists play "out" a lot and in gypsy jazz they are way more "in" sounding. This has a huge impact on any dissonance that might be occurring with background chords, which is why it probably works in gypsy jazz.

That's fine. The soloist can obviously do whatever he wants, but I'm talking about a rhythm section composed with more than one musician - piano, guitar, accordion, mandolin...it doesn't matter, using different types of voicings.
According to T. Schmitt, he suggests that playing rhythm wihout extensions will clash with any other rhythm players who will use more conventional Jazz extensions, type 6, 69, 79...
Which doesn't mean that we all have to play the same voicings btw.

Jazzaferri

If one is playing very dry gypsy rhythm then voicing becomes less of an issue.

Choice of chord however is still important. If the melody line or if the soloist is working lines that are say more 6 or 69 sounding then those chords or using appropriate substitutions will keep the rhythm from stepping on the soloist. Same goes if the soloist is running more in the major 7 or dominant 7 tonality. If they are all over the map try :shock: *7Alt chords ... : l: at least they cover almost all the bases and no matter what one does there is going to be a fair bit of dissonance anyway.

If a soloist is going way outside the box and there is a bass then focussing more on the 3 and seven of the chord and keeping one's rhythm very dry minimizes the chances of uncontrolled dissonance. If no bass then using Root 3,7 or similar abbreviated voicings depending on the chord will achieve similar results

One doesn't often find piano and guitar playing at the same time in jazz but if they are the comping can get challenging and dyads on the guitar often will stay out of the pianists way. If I get stuck in a jam that starts to grow, I just dry up the chord to be like a tuned drumbeat at best. Personally I don't really enjoy larger jams too much going on for my poor ole brain :oops:

BIll Brown

Hey

Im not familiar with the Alt 7 chords...can someone enlighten me ??? :shock: :shock: :shock:

jovation

BIll Brown wrote:

Hey

Im not familiar with the Alt 7 chords...can someone enlighten me ??? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Altered dominant 7th chords are a mainstay of jazz and blues. Take the basic notes of a dominant
seventh chord (1, 3, 5, and flat 7th), and you can add notes such as a flat or sharp ninth or
thirteenth.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_chord

Jazzaferri

Another way to put it 1,3,7,#4(b5) #5(b13) b9 #9.

Jazzaferri

Don't know what happened to the edit but just for clarity any 7 chord that doesn't say major 7 and isn't a full diminished has the minor7 b7. All the notes are supposed to bed played but obviously in guitar it is difficult.

A voicing I use a lot in jazz is e.g. for A7Alt bottom to top frets 5,6,5,6,6,6 = root, #4(b5), 7, 3,#5,b9 missing the sharp 9 can do them on a 7 string but that's another thing altogether.

djangology

Joli Gadjo wrote:

That's fine. The soloist can obviously do whatever he wants, but I'm talking about a rhythm section composed with more than one musician - piano, guitar, accordion, mandolin...it doesn't matter, using different types of voicings.
According to T. Schmitt, he suggests that playing rhythm wihout extensions will clash with any other rhythm players who will use more conventional Jazz extensions, type 6, 69, 79...
Which doesn't mean that we all have to play the same voicings btw.

My opinion was, aside from the rhythm section, that the dissonance problem might be somewhat reduced by the fact that Jazz manouch soloists usually play "in" sounding arpeggios, skipping some octotonic scale tones that might otherwised be played in pop jazz, and so a Jazz manouche players dissonant effect is less than a typical jazz guitarist would be on the "overall" sound of the group having a dissonant rhythm section. Maybe that is why this style works so well for jamming?

bbwood_98

I'll chime in here-
Listen, Listen, Listen- look- we play rhythm; but it is still jazz, and we can still improvise, unless a chord has a specific reason to alter it- just think in terms of minor, Major, Dom, and 1/2 dim (two before a five going to minor chords- sometimes) . . and improvise the rest (tritone subs, alteration, and so on) depending on what is happening. . . for me this is what makes playing rhythm exciting!