About lamination

Shawn

I don't know who can answer this, but I'm wondering what the typical thickness is of the laminates on the back and sides. In particular, is the maple inside typically thicker than the rosewood veneer that covers the layer of maple? If so, what is the thickness of the maple core compared to the rosewood on the outer layers?

I'm asking this question as I have a Gitane that I sanded the finish off of, and in the process of doing so, accidentally sanded through to the maple. The outer layer of Rosewood doesn't appear to amount to much in thickness, so I'm wondering if it would be ok to just sand off the outer layer of rosewood over the whole guitar (I know I'm probably making some of you cringe just reading this)?

Apart from what it would look like would the guitar still be stable, or in other words, is the layer of maple thick enough to keep the stability of the guitar?

Bones

Hi Shawn,

I don't think the inner layer is maple. Maybe poplar or ash or some other as I recall from previous threads but I could be wrong.

You might try looking for some rosewood veneer with a similar grain and just glue it on and carefully sand it down to match as close as possible.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Craig Bumgarner

Shawn,

Bones is right, the exposed layer is probably poplar or something similar soft hardwood. Poplar was used in Selmers because it is inexpensive, readily available, low percentage of knots and glues well. It is not ideal when used with high moisture content glues as it expands rapidly and can make a really mess of the laminating process if you are not expecting it.

To answer your question though, most veneers these days measure .020" - .022" thick (more than a piece of paper, less than a matchbook cover). Yes, pretty thin. The inner layers are most likely the same thickness as veneer thickness is pretty standard. In modern Selmer type guitars, it is common to use four layers. In the 1930's, veneers were more like .030" and they used three, but exotic hardwoods are expensive and thinner has been the trend for years. Selmer use rosewood, mahogany, maple, etc. for the outer layers, poplar for the middle and mahogany for the interior. Modern guitars double up on one of these for the fourth layer.

I would NOT sand the rest of the rosewood off. Besides being a lot of work and difficult to do evenly, you will have removed 25% of the total thickness and probably more as you sand to get the glue stains out of the next layer. Most GJ guitars are pretty much as light as they can be and a 30% - 40% reduction in the back and sides is a structural risk. Besides, poplar is not a particular interesting wood aesthetically.

You glue in a piece of rosewood as Bones suggests, but you might want to first try some faux painting of the spot instead. Use staining pens, colored magic markers or even paints and try drawing in the grain in several different colors, black and dark purples to match. Don't be too discouraged if it does not look perfect the first time, you can always fuss with it to make it better. And, it will look better once you have finish on it. You can find a number of tutorials on faux wood graining on the web.

CB

Shawn

Bones, do you know where I could get a very tiny piece of rosewood veneer? I can't think of a single place that would have something like that locally, and I don't want to buy a 2 by 4 of rosewood for a teeny tiny patch.

Craig, that is exactly the answer I was looking for. I didn't realize the inner layer was Poplar rather than Maple. I've never liked the look of Poplar with it's grey and green overtones, so it's a good thing I asked before I went to town on it. Also, good to know about the thickness, as I wouldn't want to do anything to structurally harm the guitar 8) .

everett

http://www.rockler.com/search_results.c ... submit.y=0

you can have something shipped from rockler? i've ordered a ton of woodworking stuff from them in the past.

Jazzaferri

If my memory is correct this month's fine woodworking had an article about fine veneer repair. Glanced at it at the store last week

Bones

Shawn,

Locally I have found small pieces of veneer at hobby shops, craft shops or 'art from scrap' type places but it's pretty hit or miss. Or go on line to fine woodworking sites or luthiery sites like Stewart Macdonald or Luthier's Merchantile. If you can find some locally you can pick thru the stack to find a piece that matches color and grain or you can stain it to get a better color match. You may also have to use some wood filler to fill the grain since rosewood is an open grain wood otherwise the lacquer won't fill the pores. If it is a very small area you can just keep brushing in some thick lacquer to fill the pores with that.