Rosenberg Academy is live!

Hemert

You've heard from two dissatisfied customers here (and they are really the only two who have spoken up). I really believe they are dead wrong, but that is to be expected since I'm part of the Rosenberg Academy. So I linked to this thread on our forum (which is open ) and asked for reactions. Here's a selection (without mentioning names to protect privacy). If I'm making this stuff up I'm sure timemaker27 will call me out on it:

"...As someone who came from Bebop style and only recently started learning gypsy jazz, I know that the theory road leads nowhere if it is never applied to a practical situation. I tried to learn hundreds of scales, but I never made any music. But when I started using my ears and learning by transcribing and copying the players I liked, I could see my playing improving and I was soon able to improvise.
I know this approach works, which is why I know I will stick around. The way Stochelo teaches is exactly what I want from the course. If people want to get headache by reading rocket science theory, thats fine. I want to learn to play gypsy jazz, and thats what I get here.

I am VERY happy with the lessons. Much value for the money!..."

"...For what its worth , i think the site is excellent, this is the way music should be learnt and not just practising scales all day, if some people dont realise that then its there loss and maybe one day they will realise that. As far as the price is concerned i think it is excellent value for money to learn from the master, Mark..."

"...I saw this discussion and didn't really get it. Where I live in the US you pay at least $50/hr for a lesson and that's with someone who isn't anywhere near Stochelo's caliber. Two lessons is the cost of what RA is going to cost me for 6 months.

I think the RA is a really great deal and I'm sure it's only gonna get better. Stochelo's explanation of how and when he uses rest strokes and how he *anchors* his hand really cleared up some stuff I wasn't sure about and both of the full songs are chock full of awesome licks. So I'm just looking forward to a whole lot more. ..."

"...I LOVE THE ROSENBERG ACADEMY! I don't want theory. Theory is easy. I WANT TO PLAY!!!! I agree with the Rosenberg Academy method 100%. I would stare at videos for hours trying to recreate what Stochelo was doing. It wasn't until I saw the detail tablature and got to see him break it all down that I could really grasp how Stochelo plays. Just look at what Paulus Schaefer, Mozes Rosenberg, and Jimmy Rosenberg learned! This is not a site to learn Django's style. This is a site to learn Stochelo's style of gipsy jazz! ..."

"...Theory really kills the joy of playing. Using your own ear is the best way to know if something sounds right or not. If people want theory, the internet is overflowing with chord charts and scales so i dont get what people are complaining about.

I think Stochelo is doing something great here. He is a world-class musician with a busy schedule, and he takes his time to make something like this...."

Guess what, not one single negative reaction!

Jim Kaznosky

Hemert

Let your endeavor grow and let the quality of the material speak for itself. It's probably a better idea to keep folks a breast of improvements and new material to the academy rather than act negatively.

Hemert

Hi jkaz,

I wasn't trying to attack anyone. I just wanted to make sure that people who maybe were having doubts to join the academy due to this thread could hear from some other students! So, actually I'm just spreading some positivity

Nathan

I don't think it's appropriate to dismiss the valid complaints of paying customers as "dead wrong." If people are disappointed in the value for their money, how can that be considered wrong? Your rebuttal to people who feel they are not getting content proportional to the price is a bunch of quotes from people who don't like music theory? What is the reasoning behind that? I would have been only mildly suspicious of the odd sameness of the quotes, but prefacing them with "If I'm making this stuff up I'm sure timemaker27 will call me out on it" makes it extra weird. I'm much more interested in what people have to say on this forum, but I think it's plain to see for everyone that while there may be a reasonable debate to be had regarding the value of Rosenberg Academy, it is undeniable that the customer service is sorely lacking.

redblues

I smell a smilinjack type.
The conversation is over what ever your name is, Hemert has explained all.

Don't feed the trolls by responding, let this thread die
/topic

Nathan

What's a smilinjack type?

I've never posted anything before, but his responses were so obnoxiously flippant and illogical, I felt compelled to say something.

Hemert

Ha, that's funny! I actually thought that he referred to me as the "smilin' Jack". Probably because I also have no clue what that means (and I've Googled it). So, needless to say I'm pretty curious now.

dennis

lol smilinjack is a 59 yr old neo-nazi from new jersey who stalks people on facebook and posts inappropriate comments... i keep him around on my fb because it's just funny to see a 59 yr old act like a 12 yr old

Elliot

You really think paying 21 euro per month (one month free if you sign up for 6 months) is a lot of money for Stochelo showing you all his licks and phrases slowly and written down?? You must be kidding right?

Hopefully nobody is going to get defensive about what I'm about to say, but it is really unfair to put the price of learning material against Stochelo's status as a player. No one charges $500 for a textbook from a bookstore as a better value than paying for a college education, do they? People pay for what they learn, not who they learn from, and besides that, the ones at the top of their professions are often terrible instructors, although I see others are helping to bridge the gap in Stochelo's case here.

Also, is learning Gypsy Jazz nothing more than collecting licks and phrases? If that is the case, then one only needs the ability to transcribe to learn, no need for any kind of 'Academy' at all. Somehow I doubt that. In the YouTube video of Stochelo in his trailer (he seems quite young here) he goes through a II V I progression in the key of F all the way up the neck so it seems like he must know SOMETHING in the way of theory. Again, it is an unfair comparison to pair what one needs to learn against all the modal nonsense involved in a comprehensive theory survey one doesn't use for Gypsy Jazz. What I think some people at these Academies don't get yet, Robin Nolan being an exception, is that transcriptions, even ones with detailed, appropriate musicologist notation, are not sufficient in themselves to be considered a course. We want to know and be shown the where and the why a certain run is used so that from there we can make up OUR OWN licks and phrases, as much as they may (or may not) depart from what is normally expected within this form.

Otherwise one can go on forever collecting licks without anything but a good ear to tell what is right, that is, after learning 30 or 40 songs by heart. And Django didn't start from nothing but a head full of licks when he tackled a new song either, don't you think? In fact, he didn't (and couldn't) need charts at all to play just a hint of the standard progressions everybody was using at the time to jam along to just about anything you could throw at him, correct? I remember his only instruction was "You start...!" So he must have been familiar with some kind of theory as well.

I tried to suggest something along these lines to a different Academy and all I got was pretty much a form letter with a description of what they had to offer. If I send off a video of something I've memorized and Stochelo or Fapy liked the way I played it would be thrilling, but knowing what I'm doing (when it's my time to solo, as Hemert would say) is a different story entirely.

Jim Kaznosky

I think you present some interesting points, Elliot.

I took a few lessons from a fella last year who asked me if I was content with playing licks or if I wanted to learn to improvise. There are clearly some classic licks that I'd love to be able to execute because they sound great in context and they represent a degree of technical ability that has been achieved. Mixing and matching licks is a great way to get off the ground and running and can help show an interested student a bit of the instrument. Some players are happy to reach the point of being able to play their favorite licks and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

The intuitive player can do a bit of homework to see why a particular lick will work over the changes it is played over. An even more studious player will look at what chord form this is derived out of and should be able to come up with their own licks in this position based on this knowledge. So your point is well taken.

Conversely, playing nothing but a catalog of licks with little or no variation isn't truly improvising. I hope I'm not disrespecting anyone here with that opinion. Improvising, to me, is hearing a melody in your head and playing it at the speed of thought. This is very difficult to achieve. There are nights when the band I play with tells me that I'm hearing what I'm playing. There are other nights that they asked me if I practiced that lick in the week leading up to the gig. But learning these licks can start as a good road map to navigating changes. As someone said in a review of another academy, the stuff isn't spoon fed to you. I believe that it shouldn't be. If I want to excel at this or any style, there's other work that needs to be done in order to hear. I've only seen one of the academies at work and there are signposts that are laid out before you. You just have to drive to them.

Generally, I had no expectation of joining an academy and hoping that internet magic will make me a better player. I did expect to hear how these master's learned and what their thought processes were beyond an improvisation. What I hope is that the brand new player doesn't hit up GJA or RA expecting to be a master in a few months and these academies don't promise this. An ideal academy would balance access to a master with active participation between access among the students. Even then, you still have to get out there to play with other folks. That's the real goal.

I hope this isn't out of line.