2-note per string arpeggio

Guillemlt

Hi everyone,

I'm just starting on this gypsy world, wich is great and motivating, but a little confusing (to me) about the picking. Here's what I mean:

I assume that the next picking pattern is correct (Amin arppegio):

------------------------8---12-
---------------------10--------
-------------------9-----------
------------7---10-------------
----------7--------------------
----5---8----------------------
D U D D U D D D D

My doubt appears when, assuming this is correct, you play diminished (or a 7th) arpeggio, it seems, to me, like it's not the same "logic" about changing strings, here's what I mean:

--------------------------------8--
-------------------------7--11-----
----------------------8------------
---------------7--11---------------
--------6--10----------------------
--5--8-----------------------------
D D D D D D D D D D (I believe this is the right one)

D U D U D U D D D D (this one is more like the Amin)


My qüestion is, do you really pick all restrokes when running a diminished or a 7th arpeggio with 2 notes (or 1) per string?

Thanks!!!

swing_gitan

Guillemlt wrote:

Hi everyone,
My qüestion is, do you really pick all restrokes when running a diminished or a 7th arpeggio with 2 notes (or 1) per string?

No. When playing a 2-note-per-string arpeggio, you use D-U picking. When playing a 1-note-per-string arpeggio, you use swept rest strokes ascending and rest strokes descending.

Elliot

That is correct: you should alternate on the same string. In your first example you do that starting out and so the last note (on the top string) would end the run in an upstroke. Likewise in the second example the second run would be right, except the 2nd note of the B string should be an upstroke.

Of course if you can hammer out downstrokes like a Thundergod it might not matter too much, but I always run into trouble playing too many downstrokes in a row so I stick to this way going up but I also break with the basic rule going down and allow myself an upstroke and alternate if it is just a single note on a string since this is just faster and smoother that way for me. I think Debarre does that too and others also I see once in a while, but it is very hard to notice on video.

Guillemlt

Hi,

actually I've been playing the way you say (alternate picking on the same string), but I've been looking to some Stochelo and Fapy videos, and, to me, it looks like they are doing all reststrokes when running 7th arpeggios (2 note per string). I mean they change string always "sweeping", so they have to repeat a reststroke on the 2nd note of every string...

Ok, I don't know if that is "understandable", I believe I just wrote a mess...


Thanks for the answers!

Guillem

Hemert

Actually Guillem, since you are a member of the Rosenberg Academy you know exactly how Stochelo does it?!

The A-minor arpeggio in your example is not how Stochelo would pick it! The dim arpeggio is closer but Stochelo would almost never use that particular one, he prefers to play those notes on another combination of strings!

Guillemlt

Well,
the thing is they don't work on this particular issues (maybe not at my low level in GJ), they focus more on licks than whole arpeggios, but as far as I know, the logic would be the same.
I started with Gypsy Picking (wich is great opened a huge window to me), but since I've been working with both (Gypsy Picking and Rosenberg Academy), I'm feeling a little confused, and I don't know wich way I should take...I guess both ways work fine depending on other aspects.

Thanks,

Guillem

BluesBop Harry

[quote="Guillemlt"]Well,
I'm feeling a little confused, and I don't know wich way I should take...I guess both ways work fine depending on other aspects.

Thanks,

Guillem[/quote]
What do you mean? Stochelo's technique is pretty much textbook gypsy picking....
Regarding the arpeggio you posted here's the way most gypsy pickers would do it at speed:

--------------------------------8--
-------------------------7--11-----
----------------------8------------
---------------7--11---------------
--------6--10----------------------
--5--8-----------------------------
--D--U-D--U-D--U-D-D--U--D

The fingering is a bit unusual though......
Remember downstroke as much as possible and always use a downstroke on string changes.

Hemert

No, Stochelo's picking is not at all what's in the text books! Gonzalo Bergara's picking is actually much closer to what's in the text books.

It is true we don't focus on arpeggios in isolation but there's no need to; all of Stochelo's solos are filled to brim with arpeggios. If you study the tab for his solo on "Minor Swing", "Hungaria" and "For Sephora" in the academy - in which EVERY note has the picking direction transcribed - you'll learn pretty much all the arpeggios you'll need. Also in the "technique course" Stochelo's explains his picking technique in detail. The trick with all the down strokes is using different kinds of down strokes.

I feel I shouldn't discuss these things too much because...well that's bad for business

Guillemlt

Hemert wrote:

It is true we don't focus on arpeggios in isolation but there's no need to; all of Stochelo's solos are filled to brim with arpeggios. If you study the tab for his solo on "Minor Swing", "Hungaria" and "For Sephora" in the academy - in which EVERY note has the picking direction transcribed - you'll learn pretty much all the arpeggios you'll need.

Hey! I wasnt' saying it as a bad thing! Having the way of combining arpeggios in a context is great stuff.

Hemert wrote:

I feel I shouldn't discuss these things too much because...well that's bad for business

Yes. You're probably right here :-)

By the way, thanks for replying that fast.

HotTinRoof

Hemert wrote:

......I feel I shouldn't discuss these things too much because...well that's bad for business

On the contrary, I think that post was quite a nice advertisement.

BluesBop Harry

Hemert wrote:

No, Stochelo's picking is not at all what's in the text books! Gonzalo Bergara's picking is actually much closer to what's in the text books.

I don't want to start a battle but... As far as I know there's only one book about the picking technique for this style and that is Gypsy Picking by Michael Horowitz. The technique guidelines written in that book basically describe Stochelo's (And most other gypsies) core plectrum technique as can be confirmed from watching videos of the man playing. My favorites are Denis Chang's productions Gypsy waltzes and In the style of.
Of course there are subtleties and details that make up his personal style and give him his unique tone and phrasing but I insist that regarding pick direction, the use of rest strokes and the other basic outlines of the traditional way to use a pick for this style, that book describes Stochelo's picking technique almost perfectly.
BTW I'm not a member of the Rosenberg Academy yet and will probably become one once the site has had more time to upload courses. I'm just going by what's on the videos and comparing it to Horowitz´ book...they match.