Incorporating Gypsy Jazz

Jorge Rubiales

Hello everybody! I've been reading this forum for a while now, but just registered to make my first question here (great people over here, btw!)

I'm studying classical and jazz guitar at a conservatory, so I know my way through some theory and the guitar itself, aswell as improvisation (nothing to write home about yet, but hey I'm on my way).

Thing is, I've recently "discovered" this wonderful music, and I've come to find that it kind of represents most of my ideals when it comes to how I like to play jazz, but I just didn't look enough at gypsy jazz before and comunities like this to notice.

I would love to learn to play this style, but something I need clarification about is the chord voicings, for example. I know that many are a result of Django's technique, but are the common jazz voicings suited to this style, or should I forget about playing drop 2 chords, for example? Many of the "gypsy" voicings are unknown for me at the moment, so if I can't use what I know now, it's going to take me a loooot of time to get my feet wet with some Django's tunes (I can't commit to gypsy jazz only, because in the conservatory no one knows how to play like that, and I need to keep myself in demand as I pay the bills playing music, so not a lot of extra study time for GJ...).

There are other things related to the style that I don't know now, such as common substitutions, common ways of playing the changes (I know maj7 are usually changed for 6 chords, but not much else lol). To sum up, I need to know if I need to study GJ as something apart from "american jazz", or the harmonic language is (usually) the same?

Tele295

There is some crossover, but the voicing are unique to this music if you want it to sound right. The tritone is a common theme in many of these voicings, which gives it a very dark sound. Inverting the voicings may lose that.

These voicing are just more tricks in your toolbag. I know a dozen ways to play a maj7 chord, and I pick the voicing that works best in context. Nothing prevents you from dropping gj voicings into American jazz tunes. Depends on the sound you want. Most straight-ahead jazz players I know want to learn as many voicings for a particular chord as possible.

Jorge Rubiales

Thanks for the insight!

Is there any common kind of voicing through this style? From what I've seen, it seems there are a lot of voicings with 6th string and 4th-3rd string, sometimes also the second.

I've checked out one or two books in a hurry, but is there any book or material where these things are covered? I mean, common musicians talk, not just things needed by someone new on the instrument.

Thanks again for reading!

CalebFSU

Jorge- I know where you are coming from I also studied straight ahead Jazz in Music school, I would suggest Stephane Wremble's book getting into Gypsy Jazz that is really going to bridge a lot of the language and concepts into a way you are familiar with. I would also recommend Micheal's Gypsy Rhythm those two books I think will really start to fill in some holes where you will have a lot of "a ha " or "oh I know that" type moments.

Jorge Rubiales

Thanks a lot CalebFSU!

I'll try those books you mentioned. I'm already studying with my archtop, I guess it will be easier when I save for a Cigano (the archtop sometimes is too small for some picking patterns and chords...)

I've been watching a lot of Bireli and Stochelo videos on youtube. I taught myself to play until I got in the conservatory, so I'm used to "steal the movements" of the players, but man those fingers are fast! lol

Anyway, thanks again, and if someone wants to debate on this subject, make an opinion or anything, it will be very welcome!

CalebFSU

Nothing wrong with shedding on an archtop there are a lot of videos out there of Bireli and Stochelo playing archtops. Yeah Man check out Some younger guys LIke Noe Reinhardt and Rocky Gresset those cats play gorgeous L5's and you can hear all that modern stuff mix with the django and influence. Those guys really came out of the Bireli camp in my oppinion and play some great music!

Enrichettoblondel

And what do you think of playing gypsy jazz with standards acoustic, or nylon strings guitars?

CalebFSU

hahahaha Play what ya want how ya want I guess!! Depends on what you are going for and what your things is I guess, but have fun!

Jazzaferri

I am currently studying jazz at school (yes at 61 LOL) having grown up with Django/swing music along with the older style jazz standards (Nola 30's dance band jazz etc) There is a huge difference in tonality between modern jazz and GJ but the older jazz styles use very similar chords.

Going from modern jazz to GJ will be in musical terms be relatively straightforward. If you are a good book learner then go with the recommendations however I would suggest that Romane's "LEsprit Manouche" will do you very well as well.

If you find it easier to learn by ear study django's music and learn transcriptions of his stuff (or better yet transcribe them yourself if you have time) That is how I do it as I knew the fretboard already and needed to understand the nuance of the language. There are a few GJ standard tricks (techniques) that one can learn but they are not really necessary to play this style.

The key is to understand the language. After that everything is just technique. In playing with othersw I find the biggest difference is in the interaction between instruments. In GJ the rhythm players role is quite different than comping with a combo in modern jazz. Simpler in some ways but harder in others.

Jim Kaznosky

Jazzaferri wrote:

In GJ the rhythm players role is quite different than comping with a combo in modern jazz. Simpler in some ways but harder in others.

Oh man. I love when a drummer comes and sits in after playing rhythm for two sets.